Being ruthless to be rich
 

Hi everyone,

Feeling a little low concerning my salary so at the risk of sounding stupid, I hope some of the big shot pro's can give advice.

First see, I'm really not a loud, show-off, fast pace guy. I see my life as very relax, just work hard, stay in condo and be contented. So far, my income is very good, but not great. Full disclosure, I'm 32, earning $9.2k base, $11k with bonus / month.

How I'm feeling is that I want two things say before I'm 35: 1. A condo at Tanjong Pagar, 2. A BMW 5 series. However, I still want to be the simple guy that the common man down the street can relate to and lim kopi with. My friends say that to attain what I want, I need to make like $25k / month. But when I see people who get there, it's as though they're all alpha, greedy, ruthless, full of vagularities. That's not me.

My question is this: 1. Did you feel your had to step on people to get to $25k / month? 2. Was reaching $25k / month all it's cracked up to be?

It's funny. When I earned $4k / month, I thought the guy who made $10k / month was the bad guy. Now that I'm there, I'm really not a bad guy at all.

Cheers,
A Normal Guy

No advice sorry but which line are you in? Just curious, fresh grad here

I highly doubt you will find any true earners on 25k/mth, posting away on this forum. This forum is mostly made up of undergrads, fresh grads and junior execs, some posing to be what they are not.

Anyway, I think at 32 and at near 10k/mth (assuming non-commission role), you should be very satisfied with where you are in life at the moment. Perhaps it's time for you to look at how to generate passive income instead of aiming for the status symbols at this juncture.

Not commission role. Fixed salary with descretionary bonus.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Let's just say that there's pressure from societal circles that has driven me to attain these status symbols, though part of me does want them. We'll leave out the details here.

It's something like I'm facing a battle between wanting be a normal guy and conforming to these societal circles. That's why I was seeking opinions from someone who has reached that 25k/month mark. Were you always patient in the journey? Was he ruthless (not that he would admit it)? Could you get there and NOT exude a demeanour that you trampled on people.

I am 28. Don't think I can reach your pay at 32. So I think you are doing well. I dont think you need to be ruthless. Time to get additional sources of side income to reach 25K per month target.

250k-350k per year in the past few years here. No, I'm not a nasty person. There are many high earners who are quite down to earth. Maybe the alpha males / females are making much more. :)

Firstly you don't need someone who makes more than you to tell you the right way to lead your life, you should listen to someone whom you respect by leading their life the right way rather otherwise you're already leaning toward what you are avoiding.

Anyway among-st those I interact there are two sorts, one who like to define their lives via showing off (buy branded, post regularly on facebook to show off etc) and the ones who does what's right because they enjoy it but keep it on the down low.

Oddly enough the former are usually the "nouveau riche", they just made it like to buy tons of branded goods and show off, usually not that generous (both wealth & manners) and interacting with them is hollow. The latter of my associates are business people, they have properties, businesses, super cars mostly old money usually keep in their circles and interestingly do not post much on facebook except some business trips but more importantly talking to them you learn alot business experiences challenges etc.

If you feel that you need to step on people, degrade people or make 25k per month to join their clique I would say you might wanna consider changing your circle of associates.

Or you can take a trip to our nearby 3rd world countries and see how the less fortunate live, that might also give you a wake up call or rather bring you back to where you were before now.

Finally to answer your question no one does not have to be an ass to be successful but this is heavily subjective on the work environment, if you don't wanna be that guy consider changing that too.

From the tone of your post below, must say I do detect a hint of boastfulness. But that aside, to help yourself answer your own questions are these questions:

1. Look around you, How many older colleagues are there and how long have they worked in the company? That is, do people in your line of work last the distance? If you are working in the admin service (civil service) then yes perhaps, there is high likelihood that there is longevity in your job.

2. Once you established that you are not likely to be retrenched, then you can think about splurging on non-essential big ticket items like a BMW and a condo. Both are non essential because there are cheaper and perhaps better alternatives. If you are indeed in the CS, nobody cares a hoot about the type of car you drive nor the condo you live in unless you keep boasting about them. So do these big ticket items matter in your line of work?

3. You already know yourself to be a "good" guy. That means taking on "alpha male" personna on a daily basis will only cause stresses in your life. You may not like (or worse hate) the role you eventually get yourself into. That could also lead to early / premature retirement either from burnout or stress. The question is : Do you want to aim for the top spot or the sweet spot? The sweet spot is a point in your career ladder where you enjoy your work and at the same time are comfortably remunerated.

4. Do you believe in work life balance?

I have worked 32 years in one job/one company. I am in my sweet spot in my career and I am looking at working till 62. I started with a HDB flat and a jap car when I got married. Now we have 2 condos, 2 cars, and a passive income of $160k pa and yearly savings of $350k to $400k. Networth fast approaching $7M.

Best of all, I still shop at NTUC and Sheng Siong. Lim Kopi at my regular coffee shop. I dont wear fancy clothes and dont give a hoot if people think I am one old uncle - which of course I am. I am living the life I want and not one that my associates expect of me.

My 2 cents worth.

I am a typical alpha female while my husband is more low profile and quiet. I earn about $280K per annum while he earns $450K per annum. Of course, he is 10 years older than me in his mid 40s now. He works hard and get things done, but he is not the type who draws attention to himself. Ironically, he is a lawyer, so all the typical stereotypes on lawyer are completely not applicable on him.

Over the years, I came to realize that there are all sort of people who have progress in their career. Some who are cunning, some who BS a lot, some who are hardworking and get things done. For a big organization to succeed, unfortunately, you need a mixed of these people. If everyone is hardworking and does the work, and nobody is BS-ing to get business in or raise the profile of the team, there is no progress as well. You also need to be in the right place at the right time.

Since you are now so rich, are you planning to buy a GCB?

As expected, here comes the typical Singaporean answer. I was looking for someone to sensibly talk with on issues of keeping up with standards, what is expected of oneself, and seeking what is right. Clearly, it isn't you. I doubt you want to talk to me anyways.

Arh yah, don't need to waste time with this guy.

The median salary in Singapore in 2016 is $4056 pm.

If you earn more than this, please stop complaining.

I got a very simple question for you, make inference on why I ask if you may.

Does it every cross your mind one bit that you're earning twice as much as your husband while him being 10 years older than you? I wish for honesty in your but of course I can't demand it. Relatedly, do you think your husband thinks of it the slightest bit of the same thing, EVEN if you don't mention it?

I lived long enough in my career to understand the concept of unlimited wants. Let's not get into the details as I don't want turn this into a thread where people 'boast', as instigated by of the prior response. But let's just say that there is a target, set by OTHERS, not you, but to be achieved by you. Maybe set by one's wife, family or societal circle.

I've come this realization, that target is always pushed higher. And it is this constant discrepancy between what you have, and what you need to achieve, that is causing dissatisfaction in ones life. What if you can't get out of these societal circles.

Concerning those two groups of people, I believe I've reached a greater state of peace where I don't even bother with the rich people who show off. I've come 100% with terms that that's just not gonna be me. Not in this life time.

But the question is really what I am and what people expect of me. It's one thing to have your friends show off. It's another thing to have these same friends question your spending decisions - save on rent to get bigger house, take public transport, not going to investments while they don't realize you don't have that sheer size of capital to make it worth while.

You starting to see the point? I make decisions based on how I value a dollar. And because they value a dollar differently than I do, they make comments on my choices, which to me is making comments on me as a person. We both seek the same thing - a condo and a car, but choose to get there in different ways. One saves another waits for the big windfall.

I really don't want to bring particular industries in the mix. In this environment, or Singapore in general, people associate the sales, finance people as the ones getting the big windfall. And since I'm not in that industry, I can't see myself being that type of people to get that windfall of cash.

I am actually earning the same basic pay as my husband, currently, but his bonus is substantially more than me. However, it doesn't matter and we talked about it regularly. I was only earning $70K/annum when I met my husband and he has always been supportive towards my career. Being an alpha female, I am ambitious and he knows my personality when we started dating. He is ambitious too but he has a different approach as well as a stronger preference towards work/life balance.

Sometimes, it is also dependent on the career path that you have seek. He is an in-house lawyer, and at a very young age, he has already decided that he is not keen to work in a competitive environment with long hours. He is very contented working in-house with a decent pay package. If he had chose to work in a law firm, he would be earning 4-10 times more than what he is earning now, but we would probably never meet and he will very likely hate his life.

Additionally, we share all our assets and make all plans together. It doesn't matter who is earning more money, as we both get to enjoy the benefits.

I haven't logged in using this name for ages. Allow me to address some of your doubts.

Firstly, nobody that matters is going to give a sh1t about what house you live in or what car you drive. The one whose opinion matters though, is YOU. Do you want to live in a GCB and drive that nice little Aston Martin DB9 GT, just because you feel shiok? If so, get cracking my friend, and work your little butt off. If you don't care, no one else should.

As for those questions,
1. No, but it's nice to know that I can when I want to for the fun of it. I didn't have to be ruthless although it is always fun to let the other person know that you have your hand on the handle of the knife and all you have to do is twist it.
2. No again. But cold hard cash can buy a lot of things. In large enough quantities, it can buy you freedom although it sucks that it cannot buy you fulfillment.

And to your point of being the 'bad guy', nah. What bad guy? Everyone's the same, $5K or $50K. It's not personal, it's just business. It is totally possible to not behave like an a**hole even when you are there, as being an a**hole all the time gets you NOTHING. Like I said, it's just business and business is about getting something that benefits you.

To get there, in addition to hard work, you need plenty of luck, a sharp eye to spot opportunities when they present themselves and the balls to grab it when you see it.

He cannot afford it.

A nice GCB with a swimming pool in a good location would cost at least $15m.

His combined net worth with his wife is only $7m.

His own net worth would be only $3.5m.

How to afford the GCB?

Only the top bankers, top lawyers and top entrepreneurs can afford GCBs costing $15m and above. Normal average professionals cannot afford the GCBs.

Lol I thought ur nick looked familiar, it was you replied to me in 2014

You say that but if one were 100% then such things should not bother you at all franky, though such things rarely bother me I cannot for sure say 100%

But back to your question, I can give you my perspective but it will not help. How one values the dollar varies alot, unbringing, self esteem, personal commitments etc etc

I drive a 3 series but its on the higher capacity, people that know question why I would spend so much but when I go into the specifics of why I have the car they understand its a passion, another group who knows nuts would joke that I don't have the cash to buy a 5 series I laugh and agree with them and make a joke of it.

In reality to try and convince another party of your decision on dollar valuation would be the same, either you convince that you're sheer conviction of whatever it is you are doing led you to it and they do recognize where you are coming from or for the latter group you explain your background financing, how much your disposable income is etc. Lastly there is another group who will always think them self superior and will put down any values not consistent.

Of course no one wants to reveal that much, you have to selectively choose who you want to debate with on how much you think its worth to convince them, seriously if some "friend" whom you cannot convince logically keep jabbing you why bother seeing from their perspective. I stay true to how I value a dollar, I spend ridiculous amounts on what I like and I scrimp on items I don't. if I get challenged I will gauge who is asking and treat accordingly. Either I convince them, I laugh at it or I ignore as above.

Wait your husband can make 4-10 times more at a major law firm? Wow.

Hi TS,

Are you in finance/bank industry?

I am 35 and only getting 4.6k as an engineer only. I think I am a loser based on your standard.

Need your assistance on how to hit 9.8k per month. Please advise.

He was working in a magic circle law firm and would be made partner by now, if he had stayed. But, his life will be terrible. It is not always about the money, and not every lawyer enjoy the long hours, no weekends, and shitty attitude from clients.

Sorry about your predicament.
Engineers have to work until their 60s before retirement.
Bankers and lawyers can retire in their 40s if they wish to.

A quick background of myself. 40 yrs old. Done my EMBA with the world's top 5 MBA School. Married with 2 kids. Earn about 24K per month. Mechanical Engineer from NTU.
My EMBA is not the main contributor to my monthly income. I started investing in real estate since I was 24 years old. My advise I would like to offer you is that your job and your monthly income from your employer is not permanent (unless you own the business or you are a civil servant). You will need to create a passive income that will sustain you and over the years, it will grow. Remember, investments grown at a compound rate. So, the initial start is slow but it picks up after some time.
So, my suggestion for you is to put aside about 60% of your monthly salary and invest it. You will see returns in 4 years and by the time you are in your 40s , I am confident to say that it will be about the same as you are earning in your regular job. But the time you reach 50, you don't need to work but still live the same lifestyle. Now, that is a successful person (in my opinion).
Good Luck !!

Do you live in a GCB?

For those who are curious, I've just did a quick calculation based on this advice.

Assumptions for a moderately-successful Singaporean:
1) Start work @ 25 years old, at 3k/mth with 2 months bonus every year
2) Salary growth @ 3% per year; for years with promotion, growth @ 10%
3) Promotion once every 4 years
4) Save 60% of total salary and invest all of them, at 6% annual gain

Results based on the above calculations:
1) Salary at: 25 (3k/mth), 30 (3.7k/mth), 35 (4.6k/mth), 40 (6.1k/mth), 45 (7.5k/mth), 50 (8.7k/mth)
2) Number of years for gains from investments to exceed salary from job: 24 years, at 48 years old. By this point of time, your annual package is $115k, while total invested amount if $2.1m

And that's saving 60% of total salary.. not many can do that, given housing mortgage, etc..

this forum all the daydreamers gong gong talk talk so loud. black cat white cat who ish who. stop daydreaming la, rich or poor your pang sai and fart all same smell. try go India or Africa show off your money i see you get beaten up down right right not

I am in desperate need of help.
 

Hello people , I am no rich person but I am in need of financial help. Last week , I met with an accident in a rental car. It was my fault and I damaged a taxi. We had a private settlement of 2.4K for the taxi and 2.6K for the rental car. I have supporting documents for proof.
Total is 5K . The problem is , I just completed my National service and I do not have any income to take a loan.
I have payed 1K for assurance so I am left with 4K.
Any kind soul here , could provide me with 4K upfront , we could agree in a black & white paper that I will pay back the money in a period of 20 Months or LESS with $300 per month Or MORE. (I prioritise my debt if I am accepted in a full-time job.)
Upon signing black & white agreement , you may sue me in court of law IF I do not pay up..

I am desperate dear people. I am in need of help.
If I do not pay up after a certain deadline , my whole future will be gone to waste.

Please help.

You should have no prb finding a kind donor from this thread if their previous convo is true.
What gcb, magic circle, half a million pay package, 9k per mth.
But people here all big cannon. So not to mention $4k, you prob cant even get $400.

do you even know how much a GCB costs?

all these are hypothetical... assuming you are a Singapore Citizen, you would have already be contributing 20% of your salary to CPF. unless you are talking about 60% of NETT wages? Still. provided you are not the only child in the family and your family doesn't need you to take care of them. utilities, telephone bills, groceries, insurance, etc.

provided you are not intending to settle down, not intending to go for some holidays from time to time, some occasional luxury splurges...

continue building the dream portfolio of S$2m.

Yup I don't get these people. Why suffer for 25 years just to build a portfolio of $2 million? What do you get in the end?

What is the alternative then?

My wife and I "suffered" over 32 years slogging at work and built up a networth close to $7M.

As we are very conservative in investment, we didnt touch our CPF monies and just let it grow. And we were pleasantly surprised when we saw that our combined total interest from our CPF for 2017 was a cool $70k. $40k was from my CPF and $30k from my wife's.

Our investment in only blue chip shares also netted us a dividend income of $53k last year (lower than the year before). We dont do trading, we just held the shares we bought and accumulate whenever we have spare cash.

The rental market has softened, but we were still able to secure a new tenant in 2017 netting us $37k in gross takings.

All in, a total of $160k in passive income for 2017. And this was only possible because we were prepared to "suffer" for years working our lives away. We are very old school, so we didnt know any other way than to "suffer" working to secure a better life for ourselves and our children's future.

We tried buying toto but that didnt work out for us.

Different strokes for different folks.

A stranger on the internet is happy for you.

Get rich quick stories make good click bait, but getting rich slowly is tough and admirable. It may not make for a fancy story, but that does not make it any less respectable.

There's no relationship being ruthless or not ruthless and earning a good income.

I'm 36 and have a PA of $550k last year. But that's because I run my own business.

I can be strict and firm with my staff but otherwise I reward and value them well too.

Whatever you believe to be true will become true.

alot of my bosses only interested in profits, and dun bother about quality of the product. When got profit, they meet their KPI and get bonus, and the employee bonus remain the same. But when there is customer complains on the quality issues, they penalize the employee......In this case. they are consider ruthless

Wow! A blast from the past! TS, where are you now? Have you reached your goal of $25k/mth? Does it feel like what you thought it would be? Tell us! Love to hear an update from you.