Compare civil service salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

$5k is within mx12 salary scale. in your case, could be offered mx12 but salary point is up to hiring min/sb to offer. depending on exact role, experience relevancy, skills suitabity, how your interview went, hr hiring policy etc etc.

would be great if offer matches your current salary.
would be a bonus if offer is higher than your current salary.
would not be surprised if offer is lower than your current salary.

Thanks for this! You are right - would need to manage my expectations in this climate.

I've since applied for the roles. My ask would be 5k min, as a discussion starter.

Lol this was such a juicy thread.

For 2.2k guy: just take it for now. As mentioned by several people, fresh grads have little to no bargaining power so you can probably forget about asking for an increase. From HR's point of view, internships and whatever short stints you previously had basically amount to 0 work experience. That said, it's sad that 2.2 is going to be your starting rate (i empathize, i really do) but a start somewhere is better than going nowhere.

You should also consider that the economy is not in your favor right now (as much as i wish it was), and everyone else is also starting at a dismal market rate, so you can use this as some sort of consolation that you're not the only one being low balled i guess...

NOT TO SAY that degrees are worthless now, but in this economy, yes they have lost much of their MARKET VALUE so don't expect to have employers match up to previous market rates.

As for the other fresh grads that had a bone to pick with the comment which set off this contention, take it w a pinch of salt because there is honestly some merit to be gleaned from whatever he said about fresh grads' bargaining power and worth in the workforce.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Most people are okay with the questions asked by the 2.2K NUS guys. What's disgusting is the follow up comments from some jokers who think it's interesting to turn this thread into a boomer thrashing thread, thinking that they are god sent saviour for the world, when he is just a worthless fresh grad in this challenging job market who needs to face with the reality of settling for a 2K plus job. If the person had shown more humility, he wouldn't have been thrashed like mad by the rest. I am honestly happy that this joker will now need to settle for a sub-standard starting pay or remain unemployed. This will show him his rightful place and let him learn the value of humility.

Shut up boomer.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Shut up boomer.

Manage to land a job that pays beyond 2.5K?

What's the salary difference between second upper and lower for local uni engineering fresh graduate? Will it have an impact on my career progression scheme?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol this was such a juicy thread.

For 2.2k guy: just take it for now. As mentioned by several people, fresh grads have little to no bargaining power so you can probably forget about asking for an increase. From HR's point of view, internships and whatever short stints you previously had basically amount to 0 work experience. That said, it's sad that 2.2 is going to be your starting rate (i empathize, i really do) but a start somewhere is better than going nowhere.

You should also consider that the economy is not in your favor right now (as much as i wish it was), and everyone else is also starting at a dismal market rate, so you can use this as some sort of consolation that you're not the only one being low balled i guess...

NOT TO SAY that degrees are worthless now, but in this economy, yes they have lost much of their MARKET VALUE so don't expect to have employers match up to previous market rates.

As for the other fresh grads that had a bone to pick with the comment which set off this contention, take it w a pinch of salt because there is honestly some merit to be gleaned from whatever he said about fresh grads' bargaining power and worth in the workforce.

This is the asshole who said what has to be said. This is not in response to the quoted comment, responding this way makes it easier to keep track of the conversation.

I have made 2 posts so far regarding this matter and this will be my last one. My final comments on this matter are as follows:

(1) There is no longer any point in continuing this conversation. The existing difference in opinion is occasioned by diametrically opposing belief systems. Neither side is willing to consider that the other might be correct in their analysis of the current job market. Only time will tell. I will leave it to do its job.

(2) I think the best way to survive this crisis is to take a socialist slant towards our expectations of life - Everyone takes a cut today (trust me when i say it is really bad in some circles) so that we can prosper together tomorrow. My issue is not that taxpayer money is being used to support the traineeships (which is why it was a by the way point) - my issue is that despite knowing that FOUR budgets have been released this year resulting is god know how much deficit to the country's budget - there is still a selfish streak of "i deserve more because im a grad and have done internships". Everyone is suffering, having a degree and having done internships does not make you special. Take a hit now. You will be rewarded when the economy recovers. This is why one part of cs bonus is tagged to the performance of the economy.

(3) My hope is that all fresh grads can find jobs because that means you can kick start the recovery process by contributing to society in the form of your taxes...and of course being financially responsible for yourself so you don't become a burden to the state. If you can find a 3.5k/4.6k job - even better, you contribute more to the recovery of the economy. I hope all of you find your 3.5k/4.6k jobs. Like i said, only time will tell.

For the 2.2k guy, you mentioned it's a traineeship, I do see it as some form of apprenticeship which one would be paid an allowance (for sustenance) rather than a full salary. If you get to speak to HR, clarify the following with them:
- grade which you are employed under (if tagged to MX, even better, you should be MX12)
- expressed that the salary offered is rather low compared to the market (know your market rate)
- you said that they would give an increment after a few months? How much? Is that considered a promotion? If so, grade?

A decent HR person should be able to tell you your grade emplacement. If not tagged to MX, they should be able to help to bridge to MX equivalent.

If your HR cannot provide answers to the above, accept the job and continue looking. If you are really keen on the traineeship, then complete it and see how later. Have a short-term plan, some foresight. You will be graded based on how far you can think and be prepared for what would come.

Some agencies/HR do shortchange staff - fresh grad or not. I joined an agency thinking that my grade was tagged to MX11 (provided by HR) only to found out that it was MX12 when I received my appraisal.

For the "boomer" callers, well, if you want to join CS/PS, you will have to work with A LOT of them. Your CEs/DSs/PSs are all "boomers". They are hard to convince and you have to find a way to convince them. No matter how open to innovation they are, there will still be reservations - at their level a lot is at stake. So, when things don't move, you'll just have to find your way. If you have to resort to labeling, perhaps you could drop CS/PS and go for a more innovative environment in the private sector.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

For the 2.2k guy, you mentioned it's a traineeship, I do see it as some form of apprenticeship which one would be paid an allowance (for sustenance) rather than a full salary. If you get to speak to HR, clarify the following with them:
- grade which you are employed under (if tagged to MX, even better, you should be MX12)
- expressed that the salary offered is rather low compared to the market (know your market rate)
- you said that they would give an increment after a few months? How much? Is that considered a promotion? If so, grade?

A decent HR person should be able to tell you your grade emplacement. If not tagged to MX, they should be able to help to bridge to MX equivalent.

If your HR cannot provide answers to the above, accept the job and continue looking. If you are really keen on the traineeship, then complete it and see how later. Have a short-term plan, some foresight. You will be graded based on how far you can think and be prepared for what would come.

Some agencies/HR do shortchange staff - fresh grad or not. I joined an agency thinking that my grade was tagged to MX11 (provided by HR) only to found out that it was MX12 when I received my appraisal.

For the "boomer" callers, well, if you want to join CS/PS, you will have to work with A LOT of them. Your CEs/DSs/PSs are all "boomers". They are hard to convince and you have to find a way to convince them. No matter how open to innovation they are, there will still be reservations - at their level a lot is at stake. So, when things don't move, you'll just have to find your way. If you have to resort to labeling, perhaps you could drop CS/PS and go for a more innovative environment in the private sector.

The current traineeship scheme is not meant to be a job. Individuals under this scheme will not be allocated a "grade". It is also not a permanent placement. It is a fixed 12 month programme to give fresh grads a fighting chance once this is all over.

s://.wsg.gov.sg/SGUnitedTraineeships-Trainees.html

Originally Posted by Unregistered

i was the earlier poster from SME to MNC to GLC to SB to Local bank.

actually not so straight for private cross over to CS and visa versa. it is actually quite different.
so i wouldnt say either one can be the fallback of the other.

paywise, CS compensate by bonus.. if you perform, your annual package can definitely match what you can get in private..
+ point for CS is less likely to be retrench
+ point for private is higher monthly salary (no matter what its always better to take money first than to wait for the uncertain bonus & s significant amount of performance usually tie to whether you are given a chance to perform or whether your management likes you)

Agree with this. I came from non-profit > private > public service > private > public service. Essentially, your experience do count. For gov to private, I personally find policy and ops experience can translate into strategy work in the private sector. I aso can't speak for specialised domains like engineering, architecture, etc. From what I see, specialised roles don't translate very well from gov to private because specialised roles in gov are mainly contract management whereas private are mostly on the ground.

So before making any comments about gov to private is hard or private to gov at $200k p.a., think about your experience and possible value-add to the organisation first.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The current traineeship scheme is not meant to be a job. Individuals under this scheme will not be allocated a "grade". It is also not a permanent placement. It is a fixed 12 month programme to give fresh grads a fighting chance once this is all over.

s://.wsg.gov.sg/SGUnitedTraineeships-Trainees.html

I see. Then we shouldn't be using the MX eyes to look at his offer! His allowance is clearly stated on the website. No issue to me then... 2.2 should refer to the website for details.