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Unregistered 04-06-2020 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136544)
Good morning all. Can I ask what are the different roles offered and their ranking? I got offered a senior executive role although the JD stated manager so just wanted to check if senior executive is slightly or much lower than manager? Don't want to get lowballed

you will be offered the senior executive pay - in accordance with the scheme of the SB/ministry you're in.

in terms of ranking, it's manager > assistant manager > senior exec.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 05:32 PM

So just because the market has gone to ****, all paper qualifications have gone to **** too? Might as well give students fresh out of A levels MD jobs and PhD holders tekong cleaner interviews la?

The entire sparking point of the conversation was never boomer v zoomer or an entitled nus grad wanting more than what they deserve. If you follow the comment thread, some blur sotong is asking how and if he can nego because he's been searching for a long term job for the past 6 months and this is probably the first offer he's gotten.

Many of the immediate replies were civil, and then we had an entitled person coming into the conversation and shitting on the guy because he mistakenly thought he was asking for 3.5k from 2.2k, and, while also shitting on paper qualifications from bachs to phds with the claim that fresh grads need to be immediately able to prove they are worth every single cent off the bat or else just suck on your 2k salary.

While his view on job experience and salary is not entirely wrong, he straight out paints a candidate's future potential determined from the level and type of qualification as bull. He is entitled to his own opinion, but if he shits on another that hard, should he not expect the same in return, especially since he was doing so on flawed grounds and during such a sensitive period?

An NUS or any local uni grad is not immediately entitled to a higher salary on the virtue of the brand of their degrees. A degree from a local university plays a strong part in telling the employer that the candidate they're screening is likely to have better processing capabilities than ah kow, who comes straight from an A level education with no job experience and asking for the same salary. The employer can hire both of them at the same rate regardless, but would the graduate not feel rightfully wronged if he was paid the same after spending 4 years to earn a piece of paper to prove he was competent? Similarly, if a pvt uni grad that has a perfect GPA from a degree with a similar level of complexity as a local uni is paid less than a NUS grad that has a 3.0 CAP in a similar degree, he has the justification to feel indignant and all the right to ask for more. If we change the focus of the story from local degree to, say, an ACCA accreditation or some other professional certification, can you now not see why it is not wrong feel like he deserves more, even if it might not be polite or the right time to do so?

Have none of the people commenting that he was entitled for asking for 2.5k ever negotatiated their salary, and instead moved on to the next offer before even trying if they didn't like the dollar offer? There is no such luxury in such times for many jobseekers, and your views are outdated and stale, which is why they have commented with OK Boomer. Contrary to many of your beliefs, this phrase does not attack the age of the recipient, but the age of his or her outdated views.

Experience is indeed important if you want a higher salary. Even if ah kow only had an A level certification, if he was able to spend the next 5 to 6 years proving himself by climbing ranks in jobs or exceeding every target he was given, i would think that he has the right to ask for more regardless of his paper qualifications as well. The graduate that was asking stated that he had worked several internships and worked freelance while searching for a job. In my eyes, this already makes him a lot better than the other candidates that jiak liao bee for the job search period and did not have the initiative to get to know the industry better after their 1 mandatory intern from school. Do you think it is right to reward positive initiative from young people by shitting on them for wanting $200 more than their jlb peers, especially at a salary of 2.2k? Many commenters have outright said that it is not pay a local uni degree holder should be getting in civil service, and be it in a training role or not, I agree.

For the people talking about the circumstances of the employer, he is asking about a job in CS. He is not squeezing a self-employed employer dry. He is asking for a $200 increase from his 2.2k offer in a training job that has a salary range of 2.2k to 3.5k because he is certain that even if it goes south, he will still be able to get the job - likely because the employer has already made the offer and sent the contract over. If there is zero risk with a slight chance of return, any person with half a brain would know to negotiate for more. Like another comment said, people that think otherwise reek of jealousy, and probably don't want to see the fresh grad succeed because they were in similar situations in the past but did not have the guts to try to negotiate for what they think they should receive in return for their work.

To the people that have come in defense of them, you might have been lured in by the boomer talk or think that this is just another entitled brat asking for more when you had to work your ass off to get to where you are. I can tell you that this is not true. Don't be quick to jump onto their side simply because the opposing side is a fresh graduate, and try to understand the situation from their perspectives.

For the fresh grads out there, please do not be quick in dismissing your seniors by throwing an OK Boomer at them. It is a hurtful comment, even if you are not trying to be ageist about it. If you find their views to be different from yours, try to understand why they might be a little dismissive of your views. They have years of experience under their belt backing whatever they say, and while this does not make them automatically correct, their views might be more complex or more forward looking than yours on the virtue of their experience. You might find, after spending some time in the workforce, that either their views have merit or if they are outright trying to drag you down with them. Just as there are many jaded and jealous seniors in the workforce, there are many others that are genuinely nice and want to the younger generation to know about things they have learnt after spending decades working so that their juniors can succeed. Ignore the former, and make sure you listen well to the latter. I have found many seniors on this forum to be really nice when I was on my job hunt a few years ago as well. Good luck on your job hunt, and know that it might be better to just take up a job that is outrightly low balling you instead of having a blank year you need to account for on your resume because the effects of covid will not be subsiding anytime soon.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136508)
Hi all, seeking some advice.

29y. currently in pte industry.
Work experience approx. 4 yrs (creative and PR)
Pte uni (FCH), Arts.
NS in Mindef (if relevant at all)

Planning a switch to CS, specifically DSTA/MND/IMDA. Either in corp comms or policy track.

Reasonable to look at payscale 5k up? Would I enter as MX12?
Current sal is low 4k.

Thanks in advance!


Bumping this up. Any folks can shed some light?

Unregistered 04-06-2020 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136655)
So just because the market has gone to ****, all paper qualifications have gone to **** too? Might as well give students fresh out of A levels MD jobs and PhD holders tekong cleaner interviews la?

The entire sparking point of the conversation was never boomer v zoomer or an entitled nus grad wanting more than what they deserve. If you follow the comment thread, some blur sotong is asking how and if he can nego because he's been searching for a long term job for the past 6 months and this is probably the first offer he's gotten.

Many of the immediate replies were civil, and then we had an entitled person coming into the conversation and shitting on the guy because he mistakenly thought he was asking for 3.5k from 2.2k, and, while also shitting on paper qualifications from bachs to phds with the claim that fresh grads need to be immediately able to prove they are worth every single cent off the bat or else just suck on your 2k salary.

While his view on job experience and salary is not entirely wrong, he straight out paints a candidate's future potential determined from the level and type of qualification as bull. He is entitled to his own opinion, but if he shits on another that hard, should he not expect the same in return, especially since he was doing so on flawed grounds and during such a sensitive period?

An NUS or any local uni grad is not immediately entitled to a higher salary on the virtue of the brand of their degrees. A degree from a local university plays a strong part in telling the employer that the candidate they're screening is likely to have better processing capabilities than ah kow, who comes straight from an A level education with no job experience and asking for the same salary. The employer can hire both of them at the same rate regardless, but would the graduate not feel rightfully wronged if he was paid the same after spending 4 years to earn a piece of paper to prove he was competent? Similarly, if a pvt uni grad that has a perfect GPA from a degree with a similar level of complexity as a local uni is paid less than a NUS grad that has a 3.0 CAP in a similar degree, he has the justification to feel indignant and all the right to ask for more. If we change the focus of the story from local degree to, say, an ACCA accreditation or some other professional certification, can you now not see why it is not wrong feel like he deserves more, even if it might not be polite or the right time to do so?

Have none of the people commenting that he was entitled for asking for 2.5k ever negotatiated their salary, and instead moved on to the next offer before even trying if they didn't like the dollar offer? There is no such luxury in such times for many jobseekers, and your views are outdated and stale, which is why they have commented with OK Boomer. Contrary to many of your beliefs, this phrase does not attack the age of the recipient, but the age of his or her outdated views.

Experience is indeed important if you want a higher salary. Even if ah kow only had an A level certification, if he was able to spend the next 5 to 6 years proving himself by climbing ranks in jobs or exceeding every target he was given, i would think that he has the right to ask for more regardless of his paper qualifications as well. The graduate that was asking stated that he had worked several internships and worked freelance while searching for a job. In my eyes, this already makes him a lot better than the other candidates that jiak liao bee for the job search period and did not have the initiative to get to know the industry better after their 1 mandatory intern from school. Do you think it is right to reward positive initiative from young people by shitting on them for wanting $200 more than their jlb peers, especially at a salary of 2.2k? Many commenters have outright said that it is not pay a local uni degree holder should be getting in civil service, and be it in a training role or not, I agree.

For the people talking about the circumstances of the employer, he is asking about a job in CS. He is not squeezing a self-employed employer dry. He is asking for a $200 increase from his 2.2k offer in a training job that has a salary range of 2.2k to 3.5k because he is certain that even if it goes south, he will still be able to get the job - likely because the employer has already made the offer and sent the contract over. If there is zero risk with a slight chance of return, any person with half a brain would know to negotiate for more. Like another comment said, people that think otherwise reek of jealousy, and probably don't want to see the fresh grad succeed because they were in similar situations in the past but did not have the guts to try to negotiate for what they think they should receive in return for their work.

To the people that have come in defense of them, you might have been lured in by the boomer talk or think that this is just another entitled brat asking for more when you had to work your ass off to get to where you are. I can tell you that this is not true. Don't be quick to jump onto their side simply because the opposing side is a fresh graduate, and try to understand the situation from their perspectives.

For the fresh grads out there, please do not be quick in dismissing your seniors by throwing an OK Boomer at them. It is a hurtful comment, even if you are not trying to be ageist about it. If you find their views to be different from yours, try to understand why they might be a little dismissive of your views. They have years of experience under their belt backing whatever they say, and while this does not make them automatically correct, their views might be more complex or more forward looking than yours on the virtue of their experience. You might find, after spending some time in the workforce, that either their views have merit or if they are outright trying to drag you down with them. Just as there are many jaded and jealous seniors in the workforce, there are many others that are genuinely nice and want to the younger generation to know about things they have learnt after spending decades working so that their juniors can succeed. Ignore the former, and make sure you listen well to the latter. I have found many seniors on this forum to be really nice when I was on my job hunt a few years ago as well. Good luck on your job hunt, and know that it might be better to just take up a job that is outrightly low balling you instead of having a blank year you need to account for on your resume because the effects of covid will not be subsiding anytime soon.

thank you for this. The thread had taken on a toxic turn which definitely wasn't helpful. And the question the guy asked was valid. 2.2K is very low for a NUS grad and asking for an additional $200 is not asking for the stars. Also, idk why some people feel the need to unnecessarily thrash fresh grads, as if getting into NUS and doing well were the easiest thing in the world - it is not.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136673)
Bumping this up. Any folks can shed some light?

$5k is within mx12 salary scale. in your case, could be offered mx12 but salary point is up to hiring min/sb to offer. depending on exact role, experience relevancy, skills suitabity, how your interview went, hr hiring policy etc etc.

would be great if offer matches your current salary.
would be a bonus if offer is higher than your current salary.
would not be surprised if offer is lower than your current salary.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:13 PM

Value of humility
 
Most people are okay with the questions asked by the 2.2K NUS guys. What's disgusting is the follow up comments from some jokers who think it's interesting to turn this thread into a boomer thrashing thread, thinking that they are god sent saviour for the world, when he is just a worthless fresh grad in this challenging job market who needs to face with the reality of settling for a 2K plus job. If the person had shown more humility, he wouldn't have been thrashed like mad by the rest. I am honestly happy that this joker will now need to settle for a sub-standard starting pay or remain unemployed. This will show him his rightful place and let him learn the value of humility.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136605)
Everyone is dealing with this covid- crap. E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E.
That's precisely the point and the reason i've felt it necessary to say my piece.

To think that you deserve to be paid more because you're from nus and have internship experience is the height of privilege. Nobody is giving business owners, retrenched pmets, or tenants a break. no one. Even the rental rebates are not enough of a helping hand to truly make up for losses.

The govt is expanding taxpayer money on these traineeships (80% funded by govt which is probably why they exist in the first place). Taxpayer money which btw, as fresh grads you've only benefited from and not contributed to. These traineeships are meant to ensure that fresh grads can tide over this period until better times. These are not meant to be jobs. I shudder to think what would happen to fresh grads in general if the govt did not start this initiative. i think the conversation will certainly shift from im worth more than 2.2k to something more productive.

So yes, expecting to be treated better than the rest of severely struggling society is indeed asking for the moon. It is indeed unreasonable to expect better treatment simply because of your existence.

And you have benefitted from the taxpayers before you entered the workforce. So have the taxpayers before them benefitted from their predecessors. And that graduate asking for 2.5k will be paying to benefit his juniors in a year. What is your point? That your tax money very special isit? If you want to count the amount of past tax money from which you, as an individual, are still benefitting from, you may start off by calculating how much each individual traffic light costs.

Off the top of my head unemployed PMETs have their own scheme you can find at WSG and self-employed people get a nice support grant on top of their personal savings, so no, fresh grads and students are not the only ones receiving enough support if they don't scorn the pittance they are given unlike the students. Why are you not shitting on them as well like the gainfully employed person you are? Like you have said, covid is hitting everyone, and the govt is not just supporting students. Whether or not the support benefit is enough is something you should take up with the govt rather than picking on fresh grads. You think their pockets really that hard up is it?

Also, if you're going to treat every single job that has a longer onboarding period even before covid to be a 'traineeship', then I'm pretty certain these 'traineeship' inititatives have been around even before the AFC. How do you know if the job is a traineeship, and not just a normal position at a SB that is lowballing due to covid? Not all SBs are on the traineeship initiative (do I need to tell you how to check?), and if the graduate does not even know of the term "traineeship" because for some reason he doesn't know about the initative, it is safe to say that MCF isn't the portal he used to land the opportunity because traineeship jobs bombard you with a big #SGUnitedTraineeships right on the job posting - it's pretty hard to miss. It is likely he is really being lowballed, but then to you, that isn't that big an issue since it isn't your payscale getting damaged is it? Actual traineeship students can explain their lower previous income by pulling the traineeship card to get a jump start after covid, but pray tell how that lowballed graduate can do the same for a normal job.

How is he trying to get ahead of others by asking for an increase in the salary within the range of stated by hiring manager/ contract? Please let me know. It's not as if he feels he's entited to the top of the pay range or beyond that. It's ****ing 2.5k, and he'll be treated as a regular contract employee instead of a poor student living on traineeship funds and likely subject to probation and whatnot. These payscales for traineeships are 50-70% of the median pay, and any rando traineeship uni student from anywhere that earns the minimum 1.8k can immediately have at least 2.5k on their CVs if they pull the 50-70% stats out, and I'm sure most students get offered more than 1.8k.

If the company, more specifically a SB in the gov sector listing the job, says that the pay range is 2.2k to 3.5k, you can bet your ass that they have the money, but just are unwilling to shell it and are using covid as a convenient excuse. Why are you protecting the organizations under the institution that is 'wasting' your precious tax dollars on those undeserving students, and instead ****ing around with people that are actually troubled? You say you've 'said your piece', and your original comment isn't that far off from a casual racist remark to be honest. Your piece doesn't mean jack if you think you're adding anything but fuel to the situation.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136673)
Bumping this up. Any folks can shed some light?

i think earlier someone entered at 29, at MX11A equivalent.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136673)
Bumping this up. Any folks can shed some light?

Suggest maybe you can send an application first and see if you are being called up before we talk about the pay. To be honest, not sure if they will be paying you 5K and above given your private degree and current pay coupled with the challenging economic environment. But no harm trying your luck.

Unregistered 04-06-2020 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 136680)
Most people are okay with the questions asked by the 2.2K NUS guys. What's disgusting is the follow up comments from some jokers who think it's interesting to turn this thread into a boomer thrashing thread, thinking that they are god sent saviour for the world, when he is just a worthless fresh grad in this challenging job market who needs to face with the reality of settling for a 2K plus job. If the person had shown more humility, he wouldn't have been thrashed like mad by the rest. I am honestly happy that this joker will now need to settle for a sub-standard starting pay or remain unemployed. This will show him his rightful place and let him learn the value of humility.

I'm confused, are you bashing the 2.2k guy or not? Because I'm pretty sure he's been cordial in all his posts. I think the only reason he stated that he was from NUS was because other posters felt that knowing where his degree came from would be helpful in assessing his situation.

Dislike ok boomer as well, but people need to realize that it's being used by the younger generation even in conversations between themselves. I was confused when a younger colleague used it on a fresh hire, but then was told that the meme transitioned into aiming at outdated opinions rather than just boomers specifically - which I feel is fair. But I still hate the phrase regardless.


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