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  #3871 (permalink)  
Old 23-07-2014, 11:33 PM
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Anyone here went through a secondment to SB before? There is an interesting position that I qualified for but I have not reach 3 years to qualify for secondment. I am worried if I initiate a secondment and it did not materialize, my boss will rank me poorly for wanting to leave. What should I do?

bro, depends on how long have you been in your current posting. If you are 2 years into your current posting, then it should be fine. But if you are really interested in the posting, you should initiate the secondment or even file for transfer. Opportunities don't come by often. Grab them when they appear. It's after all your career.

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  #3872 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 11:27 AM
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New entrants (who are MX12's & MX 13's) could have been already been getting higher entry salaries vs those who have joined earlier and in their MX 11's. And MX 11s age group is probably a lot wider than MX12's and MX 13's. Older ones sure didn't have the benefit of starting high as today's new entrants.

In all schemes, there are cut-offs. Those who get it, feel at the top of the world, particularly those who are at the boundaries. The opposite for those who don't. It's the same feeling when you pass through an ERP gantry at say 0859h and end up paying X dollars vs the happy guy behind you who hit the gates at 0900hrs and don't pay anything.

For those who don't get the increment how? Don't do work at all? Remember that we are paid our salaries. I have seen those who after hitting salary ceiling, hide one corner and siam work, not forgetting they are paid their salaries. If i am an employer, I would ask that fella to go home permanently and hide one corner. So continue to work, hard if you want to get anywhere.
If you're my boss I'll beat the **** out of you. You how old? Hard work can get anywhere? Haha. Last year I put in more effort and got more results than my peers, but they got promoted instead of me due to favoritism and politics from the upper management.

You think this is schooling days got study will get results? Please. Open your eyes and work a few more years before you sprout nonsense.

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  #3873 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 11:59 AM
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If you're my boss I'll beat the **** out of you. You how old? Hard work can get anywhere? Haha. Last year I put in more effort and got more results than my peers, but they got promoted instead of me due to favoritism and politics from the upper management.

You think this is schooling days got study will get results? Please. Open your eyes and work a few more years before you sprout nonsense.
totally agree with TS whom u are replying to. that is a good work ethic and something i value in my employees.

to you: you how old? still don't know how to play the game? managing your bosses are just part of the game. why do you think certain groups of FTs get jobs and promotions over sinkies? do you think they are really cheaper/faster/better or is it just because it is part of their P/I culture to know how to market themselves? oh wait, you sheltered civil servants do not get to experience this competition with FTs so you will never really know what happens in the real world outside.

try taking your lousy work attitude out there and see how many months you last. anyway civil servants are overpaid to knock of on time and wait for retirement.

have some pride in yourself and don't disgrace Singaporeans.

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  #3874 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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bro, depends on how long have you been in your current posting. If you are 2 years into your current posting, then it should be fine. But if you are really interested in the posting, you should initiate the secondment or even file for transfer. Opportunities don't come by often. Grab them when they appear. It's after all your career.
Thanks. Yeah, at 2 yr mark
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  #3875 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 02:29 PM
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New entrants (who are MX12's & MX 13's) could have been already been getting higher entry salaries vs those who have joined earlier and in their MX 11's. And MX 11s age group is probably a lot wider than MX12's and MX 13's. Older ones sure didn't have the benefit of starting high as today's new entrants.

In all schemes, there are cut-offs. Those who get it, feel at the top of the world, particularly those who are at the boundaries. The opposite for those who don't. It's the same feeling when you pass through an ERP gantry at say 0859h and end up paying X dollars vs the happy guy behind you who hit the gates at 0900hrs and don't pay anything.

For those who don't get the increment how? Don't do work at all? Remember that we are paid our salaries. I have seen those who after hitting salary ceiling, hide one corner and siam work, not forgetting they are paid their salaries. If i am an employer, I would ask that fella to go home permanently and hide one corner. So continue to work, hard if you want to get anywhere.
Yes and no. If you recall, the last salary increment across the board was in 2012 (or was it 2011?). That means even MX11 and 10 got the increment. And now, MX11 and above got additional increment, wherease MX12 and 13 do not. The whole intention of the previous salary increment was to already match all current salaries to the private sector. So saying that MX12 and 13 got better starting salary don't really hold.

So this move to exclude MX12 and 13 isn't a good one. To be honest, the starting salary of fresh grad 4 years ago and now probably increased by $100? That's definitely less than 5% increment. They could probably omit MX13 (as they are fresh grad afterall), but to omit MX12 who are in the system for at least a year or more?

But yes, you are right that this is a scenario of those who got it will be happy, and vice versa.
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  #3876 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 04:10 PM
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Yes and no. If you recall, the last salary increment across the board was in 2012 (or was it 2011?). That means even MX11 and 10 got the increment. And now, MX11 and above got additional increment, wherease MX12 and 13 do not. The whole intention of the previous salary increment was to already match all current salaries to the private sector. So saying that MX12 and 13 got better starting salary don't really hold.

So this move to exclude MX12 and 13 isn't a good one. To be honest, the starting salary of fresh grad 4 years ago and now probably increased by $100? That's definitely less than 5% increment. They could probably omit MX13 (as they are fresh grad afterall), but to omit MX12 who are in the system for at least a year or more?

But yes, you are right that this is a scenario of those who got it will be happy, and vice versa.
is the pay adjustment rumour reliable ?
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  #3877 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 06:18 PM
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If you're my boss I'll beat the **** out of you. You how old? Hard work can get anywhere? Haha. Last year I put in more effort and got more results than my peers, but they got promoted instead of me due to favoritism and politics from the upper management.

You think this is schooling days got study will get results? Please. Open your eyes and work a few more years before you sprout nonsense.
I am in the mid 30's and believe me i have seen all sorts of ppl, the smart ones, hide one corner ones, less smart ones, honest and dishonest, etc, etc.

I am not sure if you have self-reflected in your own work assessment. We are never critical of ourselves. Get a trusted colleague to critique you. I do that to get better. I am not certain why you perceive your colleagues who get promoted only because they know how to tripod their bosses, or market themselves (its a skill by the way). They may have worked hard as well, just that you don't know. They may seem to go home early on their jobs, but they deliver more, because of higher competence. You can get investigate their winning formula and learn from them. In my mind there are 4 types of employees,
a) the capable ones who can also market themselves (inflate their worth say 10-20%),
b) the capable ones who are the silent worker,
c) the less capable ones who can 'smoke' and market themselves (this sort of employees of
crumble later or hide from responsibility if they are lucky to get to higher grades), and
d) less capable ones who are also silent.

Which do you belong to? I hope either a or b.

For bosses, some types too:

a) the capable ones who are reasonable and consultative (very very rare)
b) the capable ones who very dictatorial (do what i say type, if not you kenna type)
c) the less capable ones who don't know anything and ask you do everything + claim credit
or push blame.
d) less capable ones who are very hardworking and making a mess of things and screw up
the employees work
e) Full empowerment type (aka hide one corner and dont get me involved at all)

What category do your bosses belong to? If you don't like them, change job, posting, whatever. No point demoralising yourself by staying.

To other readers. I like to add that civil service isn't a field of flowers. So avoid that sort of stereotype treating all civil servants as jiak liao bi. The civil service is very wide and a rather tolerant & benign employer. Naturally, you would have all employees of sorts of personalities & work ethics.The capable ones do a lot more work than the rest, because their peers aren't working as much. I would also say that the pay difference (in terms of PB) between one who slog like mad vs one who work normally is not very large. Some of the capable ones are the ones that may go into the pte sector where they will be valued more.

Agree that private sector is generally tougher to survive because there isn't as much resources to feed slackers and incompetent staff.
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  #3878 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 07:36 PM
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Yes and no. If you recall, the last salary increment across the board was in 2012 (or was it 2011?). That means even MX11 and 10 got the increment. And now, MX11 and above got additional increment, wherease MX12 and 13 do not. The whole intention of the previous salary increment was to already match all current salaries to the private sector. So saying that MX12 and 13 got better starting salary don't really hold.

So this move to exclude MX12 and 13 isn't a good one. To be honest, the starting salary of fresh grad 4 years ago and now probably increased by $100? That's definitely less than 5% increment. They could probably omit MX13 (as they are fresh grad afterall), but to omit MX12 who are in the system for at least a year or more?

But yes, you are right that this is a scenario of those who got it will be happy, and vice versa.

Replying:

Yes indeed, salaries were revised in 2012. From then till now (2 years), the starting incomes should not have differed much. Not sure if any forummer has been tracing the trends in starting pay though. If so, then i am not certain what are the objectives of the additional pay increment for MX 11s and above and whether it is civil service wide in the first place. Probably got to wait for press release.

I was thinking that MX10s above are already having a rather high pay. Very few private sector jobs can command similar salaries. Thus increment for them for retention purposes seems to be a little hard to swallow. For MX 11's probably to increase pay by that much to make it more painful to leave the civil service. It could have been an statistical exercise to begin with, by looking at median salaries of various age groups and benchmark from there. Or it could be election coming.... hehe. All guesswork yah.
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  #3879 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Replying:

Yes indeed, salaries were revised in 2012. From then till now (2 years), the starting incomes should not have differed much. Not sure if any forummer has been tracing the trends in starting pay though. If so, then i am not certain what are the objectives of the additional pay increment for MX 11s and above and whether it is civil service wide in the first place. Probably got to wait for press release.

I was thinking that MX10s above are already having a rather high pay. Very few private sector jobs can command similar salaries. Thus increment for them for retention purposes seems to be a little hard to swallow. For MX 11's probably to increase pay by that much to make it more painful to leave the civil service. It could have been an statistical exercise to begin with, by looking at median salaries of various age groups and benchmark from there. Or it could be election coming.... hehe. All guesswork yah.
Well the increment in 2012 was 10% for mx13 and 12 and 5% for mx11 and mx10. They might realised that it wasn't enough to retain talent. In any case, we only stay mx13 for a year and mx12 for two.
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  #3880 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2014, 07:12 AM
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I am in the mid 30's and believe me i have seen all sorts of ppl, the smart ones, hide one corner ones, less smart ones, honest and dishonest, etc, etc.

I am not sure if you have self-reflected in your own work assessment. We are never critical of ourselves. Get a trusted colleague to critique you. I do that to get better. I am not certain why you perceive your colleagues who get promoted only because they know how to tripod their bosses, or market themselves (its a skill by the way). They may have worked hard as well, just that you don't know. They may seem to go home early on their jobs, but they deliver more, because of higher competence. You can get investigate their winning formula and learn from them. In my mind there are 4 types of employees,
a) the capable ones who can also market themselves (inflate their worth say 10-20%),
b) the capable ones who are the silent worker,
c) the less capable ones who can 'smoke' and market themselves (this sort of employees of
crumble later or hide from responsibility if they are lucky to get to higher grades), and
d) less capable ones who are also silent.

Which do you belong to? I hope either a or b.

For bosses, some types too:

a) the capable ones who are reasonable and consultative (very very rare)
b) the capable ones who very dictatorial (do what i say type, if not you kenna type)
c) the less capable ones who don't know anything and ask you do everything + claim credit
or push blame.
d) less capable ones who are very hardworking and making a mess of things and screw up
the employees work
e) Full empowerment type (aka hide one corner and dont get me involved at all)

What category do your bosses belong to? If you don't like them, change job, posting, whatever. No point demoralising yourself by staying.

To other readers. I like to add that civil service isn't a field of flowers. So avoid that sort of stereotype treating all civil servants as jiak liao bi. The civil service is very wide and a rather tolerant & benign employer. Naturally, you would have all employees of sorts of personalities & work ethics.The capable ones do a lot more work than the rest, because their peers aren't working as much. I would also say that the pay difference (in terms of PB) between one who slog like mad vs one who work normally is not very large. Some of the capable ones are the ones that may go into the pte sector where they will be valued more.

Agree that private sector is generally tougher to survive because there isn't as much resources to feed slackers and incompetent staff.
So agree with this post. Work my arse off and have been fortunate. But my pet peeve is the colleagues who coast do ok too. But the system is generally still fair. You give up a faster promotion route if you want work-life balance. Which is what my boss told me point blank: Unless you tell me you have other priorities, I am going to push you hard. At the end, it depends what you want in life. As a benchmark, I work till 2am n start work at 9+. Junior mgt.
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