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30-05-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
And the best part is....this person is not even from a credible university like NUS/ NTU/ SMU. It's like saying...I earn $2k a month and I yearn to live in a condominium. He/she should just wake up from his dreams.
With such a degree (if u call it one in the first place), it would be hard to compete with the local Uni grads for a position in a good bank. It doesn't even matter if it is a first class or valedictorian. And if he/she manage to join the civil service, it would be a miracle because external degree/distance learning are usually not recognised.
Don't be disheartened though. The doors of a career in finance will still be opened for you, perhaps that of a financial consultant. Opps, did I not mention the word insurance agent.
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If you would open up your mind, you will know that government agencies have been employing an increasing number private degree graduates for uniformed services, as well as statutory boards. I have too many peers in SMU that behave like the quoted jack-ss. I have to enlighten the many narrow minded peers that, if you perform well academically, it does not guarantee that you'll perform well in terms of work. So put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter, of the many private university graduates in Singapore, would you filter out the private university students even before meeting them just because they are not as academically inclined ? Its not rational. It is a simple fact that unfortunately many of the local graduates have too high of an ego to understand, especially the recent comments. Stay modest.
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30-05-2013, 07:04 PM
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Reality hurts but that is the truth.
I work in a policy making department in a ministry. Usually, after the deadline for online applications (vog.gov), my boss would ask me to retrieve all the submissions from HR department. The instructions given to me are to filter out all the external degrees (e.g. MDIS, SIM, UOL) and those whose qualifications and credentials are not relevant for the applied position.
This is not a matter of whether a person who excelled academically would do well at work. That is a different topic altogether. Perhaps it would belong to the discussion revolving around scholars and their starting point. Over here, we are focusing on someone with less than stellar qualification. Does it mean that they are less than capable? Of course not. Would you then give them a chance to prove themselves during an interview? Yes, most probably, if there are only 5 applications and 2 of them are from private institutions. But what if you have 200 applications, including many candidates from top notch universities. Frankly, we simply do not have so much time to talk to everyone. And back to your question of whether people with brilliant academic results equate to good workers in office. Obviously, if the question is framed in such a manner, it has to be an emphatic no. But we start from this point. In other words, we would be interested to see if an NTU/ NUS grad can outshine someone from Imperial...and so on.
Likewise, when i was in the private sector, the hiring managers had a similar mindset whilst hiring. The finance manager would recruit people from NTU/ SMU accountancy. The chief engineer would welcome graduates from NUS engineering...and the list goes on.
This discussion can go on and on. For every point that is made, there can be 10 counter arguments. But it's not a matter of ego or arrogance. It is simply the rule of the game in our society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
If you would open up your mind, you will know that government agencies have been employing an increasing number private degree graduates for uniformed services, as well as statutory boards. I have too many peers in SMU that behave like the quoted jack-ss. I have to enlighten the many narrow minded peers that, if you perform well academically, it does not guarantee that you'll perform well in terms of work. So put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter, of the many private university graduates in Singapore, would you filter out the private university students even before meeting them just because they are not as academically inclined ? Its not rational. It is a simple fact that unfortunately many of the local graduates have too high of an ego to understand, especially the recent comments. Stay modest.
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30-05-2013, 08:35 PM
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Super Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Yes, most probably, if there are only 5 applications and 2 of them are from private institutions. .
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The trick is to get into this situation for less than orthodox qualifications. How? By having a niche and specialized skill-sets and knowledge. You may even be headhunted before you apply for jobs. This rule applies to both public and private sector.
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30-05-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cslee
The trick is to get into this situation for less than orthodox qualifications. How? By having a niche and specialized skill-sets and knowledge. You may even be headhunted before you apply for jobs. This rule applies to both public and private sector.
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What are some examples of niche and specialized skill-sets?
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30-05-2013, 09:00 PM
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Super Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
What are some examples of niche and specialized skill-sets?
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Civil service now have specialist tracks like security, economic development etc for various agencies . Big paradigm shifts from outsourcing/best sourcing in early 2000s. There is a recent news on this.
Public Service Division
Though it is for AO scheme equivalent, other rank-and-file schemes like MX etc also implemented specialist tracks.
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30-05-2013, 09:06 PM
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Super Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cslee
Civil service now have specialist tracks like security, economic development etc for various agencies . Big paradigm shifts from outsourcing/best sourcing in early 2000s. There is a recent news on this.
Public Service Division
Though it is for AO scheme equivalent, other rank-and-file schemes like MX etc also implemented specialist tracks.
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That's also why our ministers now say general degrees mean little. They really mean it when they said it (esp when more than a few have said so).
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30-05-2013, 09:21 PM
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well, u could put it that way. If i am looking for an optician, a diploma with optometry would beat a first class graduate from NUS hands down. But in this case, with all factors constant, would u hire someone with a Certificate of Merit in optometry or another person with average results. For me, the COM holder certainly has a competitive edge!
But back to the original question regarding the hiring of graduates from private institutions. I have seen people who do well in the private sector, taking on marketing jobs in a MNC or becoming relationship managers in banks etc. Of course they can. They are capable in their own ways. It's just that as far as the civil service is concerned, the odds are heavily stacked against them. It's got nothing to with guidelines or protocols. The instruction manual doesn't state that the private degree holders can't join the government. Instead, this thing is in the mindset of the hiring managers. So, when the next generation takes over, would the trend change? I doubt so, because they comprise scholars and officers from good Universities too. And it's not just the civil service that looks at paper qualifications. Other professions such as law and medicine require people with even higher calibre. Is this elitism? Personally, I don't deny it. But that's the fundamentals of human nature isn't it. The smarter ones gets more while the average joe leads an average life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cslee
The trick is to get into this situation for less than orthodox qualifications. How? By having a niche and specialized skill-sets and knowledge. You may even be headhunted before you apply for jobs. This rule applies to both public and private sector.
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30-05-2013, 09:44 PM
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Super Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
well, u could put it that way. If i am looking for an optician, a diploma with optometry would beat a first class graduate from NUS hands down. But in this case, with all factors constant, would u hire someone with a Certificate of Merit in optometry or another person with average results. For me, the COM holder certainly has a competitive edge!
But back to the original question regarding the hiring of graduates from private institutions. I have seen people who do well in the private sector, taking on marketing jobs in a MNC or becoming relationship managers in banks etc. Of course they can. They are capable in their own ways. It's just that as far as the civil service is concerned, the odds are heavily stacked against them. It's got nothing to with guidelines or protocols. The instruction manual doesn't state that the private degree holders can't join the government. Instead, this thing is in the mindset of the hiring managers. So, when the next generation takes over, would the trend change? I doubt so, because they comprise scholars and officers from good Universities too. And it's not just the civil service that looks at paper qualifications. Other professions such as law and medicine require people with even higher calibre. Is this elitism? Personally, I don't deny it. But that's the fundamentals of human nature isn't it. The smarter ones gets more while the average joe leads an average life.
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If you can learn your skillsets from local schools, chances are you're just a generalist applicant competing with 200+ other applicants.
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30-05-2013, 09:57 PM
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Super Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cslee
If you can learn your skillsets from local schools, chances are you're just a generalist applicant competing with 200+ other applicants.
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To clarify, I'm not saying specialist is "greater" than generalist. In fact, both top-end specialist and generalist earn as much in civil service. Just that there are alot more competition in generalist track. If one holds less orthodox qualification, it would easier to go down the less beaten track. I'm speaking from my experience in civil service.
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30-05-2013, 10:08 PM
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Yes, you are getting the gist of it.
As a result, the civil service picks the best results from the best schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cslee
If you can learn your skillsets from local schools, chances are you're just a generalist applicant competing with 200+ other applicants.
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