Really that bad for engineers?
 

Hi all, I'm a 20 year old currently in NS and going to study mechanical engineering next year(NUS). I read through many of the posts and found many people talking about how engineering is a dead-end career, the low pay in singapore etc...

I'm quite worried that this is true but I really have a interest in this area and the sciences. (I did quite well for my A levels (5As) and so had the option to choose other courses.) Having said that, I don't intend to be an engineer all my life but just for a few years to gain some experience in the field, then move on to higher managing roles.

study engineering, but get into a bank or do consulting.

Go read this thread in CNA forum before it gets deleted:
Channel NewsAsia :: View topic - dont waste your time being engineer or science students

don't waste your talent. Go business, finance or accountancy instead. why waste time and pursue something high risks low returns? In singapore, we leave the technical stuff to the foreigners so the wages are very suppressed.

Can u foresee urself working Abroad or going for Higher studies ? In that case, Engineering has opportunities. In Singapore, engineering work in mostly mediocre. But at the same time, these people in Biz Finance are not smart people. They earn well due to the nature of Industry. So its up to u. Do u have plans to explore . Or do u wanna work in Singapore and be a part of this Rat Race. Even if u win the rat race, u will still be a Rat.

i like this statement a lot. Is there a like button or something that i can press.

Haiz... not really into all these sales and finance stuff. Seems so boring to me. The only thing which attracts me is the pay =x

IN TODAY'S turbulent economic climate, one might expect everyone with a job in the financial sector to cling to it - yet plenty are up for a change.
...
Summary:
A survey finds only 53% of 200 Singaporeans surveyed are satisfied with their jobs. This is the second lowest - Japan has only a 47% satisfaction.

This points to a low job satisfaction and poor company loyalty in Singaporeans with more than half saying there were open to a job change at the right opportunity. Only half feel secure about their jobs.
-35% want a pay increase
-21% want a better work life balance

Research from another human resource consultancy shows that:
-a third of Asian employees - across all sectors - are frustrated in their jobs,
-16 per cent of the Asian workforce in general believe that they are effective in their jobs.

Due to a lack of empowerment and professional development.

Compare to UK:
-40 per cent of employees considered themselves effective workers.
= Higher job satisfaction.


Quote:
With all that stress, Mr Pan said it is not surprising to see people want to move out of the industry. He has even noticed professionals with financial experience of more than 10 years wanting a change.

'Bankers who have been bankers their whole lives are very exploratory at the moment, inquiring about opportunities in industries such as aerospace or hospitality,' he said.

'They seem to have quite a 'just get me out of here' attitude.'

http://www.asiaone.com/print/Busines...11-140681.html

Note: taken from a post in the BrightSparks forum

Engineering is a good career move
 

If you are willing to put a few years of hard work after Uni with crappy pay; then travel a bit and not bother too much about the 5C's in your 20's you will not go wrong with engineering.
The fact is an engineering grad is not an engineer, (doesnt matter what uni) you have to have experience, the instant gratification society we live in means that grad pay is important. Ask yourself after you finish a degree are you bothered whether as an accountant you get 1K more a month - where are those people in 10 years time. 90% of them will be on 3% PA pay rises tops. After 10 years experience my take home pay doubled every 2 to 3 years.
There is an enormous shortage of experienced engineers worldwide and this is only getting worse. I was a welder, then a QC inspector, (got my degree in mech eng and became chartered part time) worked as a project engineer, tried the corp thing and hated it, back to being an engineer. I now command a day rate of US$1200 per day (I am over 40) and continue to travel the world doing interesting and challenging jobs.
Up to you if you want a decent safe existence in singapore where you move from cubicle to office, to office with window, office with window and PA yawn yawn then go into banking but you will be up against 95% of other people
If you are willing to travel, enjoy the sense of accomplishment out of building things or making them work and find the whole corp ladder / rat race bizzare then go for engineering.

hmm im a mech enging student now at local uni, but after looking at some of the threads ard in forum saying how bad the pay of engineers are, it sort of make me sad lol.

i like engineering and its something i look forward to do in the future(i cant stand office jobs man), and one day i hope i can contribute wat i can as an individual to make this place a better place to live in with better technology.

but from some forums i saw the things they said is quite different from wat u mention? like the pay even after 5 years is only ard 3-5k? and ot for engineer dont get paid? and our job dont get appreciated by pple and stuff, and its not realli abt the money, but when pple only pays u this little it just goes to show how irrelevant we are to the company. i also have seen friends who have masters in engg just everyday stay in office surf net, though balonglong, but one day surely will kena axe like this rite lol. and how far can we go if we onli can be liddat...

i dun mind getting low pay at first, to me i feel job satisfaction is more impt. now wif all these pple suaning us engg i realli feel lost. i will like to hear more from real engineers(like you) who have experience and the expertise to go on far in ur career.

and u have gotten ur degree and started ur career quite sometime ago, during the engg boom period ba, hence for now will it be much more difficult for us engineer in this era?

and if we engineers realli get sooooo look down on in company, might as well design our own things and start our own biz.

agree. engineers are good at getting actual things done. others only know how to "talk", "lead" and "manage", which means if they start a biz, they have to invest a lot of capital either hiring people to actually do things or outsource the work.

Well, is there any way people with an engineering degree can make it big, apart from going into banking and finance?

I am an engineer with 6 years of exp. My salary right now is $3500 vs my starting salary of $2900. I cannot foresee where will I be 5 years down the road. Mind you, this is my 3rd job. Even job hopping does not guarantee a significant increment. I can work hard for the company but then the company does not even give a ****. My life sux. Engineer sux. The world sux.

Oil and gas
 

I'm not too sure about other industries, but oil and gas generally pays quite well.

Is the previous poster from the electronics or semi-con industry?

Look beyond Singapore and your first 5 to 8 years
 

Can't agree more with Jonathan. Don't be pressured in your 20s to earn more than your peers. Look at skills that are portable and valuable anywhere in the world. You can be a top earner when you graduate but it doesn't guarantee you won't hit a brick wall in your 40s when the world is overtaken by younger, faster, smarter alecks. Our world is in deep trouble and the future is going to belong to Engineers: Grand Challenges for Engineering

It's still not too late. Study hard and graduate with first class honours and I don't think you will have a problem clinching a cushy job in the financial industry. But if you still want to be an engineer, do keep in mind the following points.

1) Choose the correct industries i.e. industries that pays the most with the highest salaries and bonuses. At the top of this list would be the petrochemical and oil & gas industries. The next would be the offshore & marine and probably the aerospace industries. Avoid construction and manufacturing at all cost.

2) Don't restrict yourself to Singapore. The reality is that Singapore is a financial hub and not an engineering hub. Be open to job opportunities overseas.

3) There are other job roles that require an engineering degree but these roles are not engineering roles. These includes contracts, planner, estimator, sales, procurement, business development, project management, safety i.e. HSE and so on. Depending again on the industries, some of such roles can be rather lucrative too.

Go read the following books
 

Rich Dad, Poor Dad (by Robert Kiyosaki)

The 4-Hour Workweek (by Timothy Ferriss)

And you'll get THE clue.

Sounds cliche but I can't stress this enough - follow your passion.

If you suffer from insecurity or inferiority complex, money and all things material won't fix you up. It's a psychological issue. There is always another Ah-Tan Ah-Lim with more material accomplishments.

many people don't have passions. you sound like the stupid teacher recruitment ad on tv - "mr siva always asked me: what IS your passion..."

wtf? what passion does a kid have? you go ask the kids around you and you'll probably get these answers: psp, tv, ben10, winx club, soccer, kfc, mcdonalds, anime, jay chou and lady gaga.

passion my foot.

Money is my only passion.

Yes you are right. And I am sorry to say that we are breeding a whole generation of kids who goes for instant gratifications.

As a kid, I built Legos, write computer programs in BASIC and build scale models. I suck at it, but by doing these, understand the fun in creating, building and trying new things. Nowadays, just pop in a disc, you have video games.

I asked the kids, hey you guys play these stuffs everyday, have you ever thought of making something like this yourself? Nope, they reply, I just want to play them...

And so with this, coupled with the fact that the companies in this country treats engineers as being a dime a dozen, we have none left.

most people's passion is money too. just that they don't say it. or they pretend to be politically correct even when posting anonymously online. or they don't know that they're pretending. how passionate can you be when you work for someone? i hate it when people say they're passionate in a very specialized area (e.g. forward swap strategies for interest rate derivatives, or deep-water oil spill cleanup operations), especially when they said they had wanted to do it all their life.

i think passion comes into play once money is not an issue. if one is earning well n living comfortably, he may choose the work he likes over something he does not like which pays slightly better. at the end of the day, u can be paid well for something only if ur good at it. so bashing passion is not correct. and claiming passion as the only reason for doing some kind of work is also not true. the problem is that when people succeed at something and have made enough money, it is easy to talk about passion.

Money is the nearest thing a person need in order to fulfil one's passion.

Sadly, we live in singapore. No money no talk. I'm sure there are many engineers that have made it big and earn big bucks in the 30s. But generally speaking, the finance industry is definitely easier to have their pay jump faster/more than engineers.

If you want to make big bucks as an engineer you can either

1) join the financial industry - lots of engineering grads do that

2) be an engineer but not in Singapore. From what i know, engineers in other countries esp Western ones, earn LOTS and LOTS more then engineers in Singapore. Sad but true. Just like how junior lawyers in Hong Kong earn double then those in Singapore.

You know why engineers dont get paid a lot in Singapore?

They can easily get an engineer from neighbouring country, pay them half your salary and get them to work twice as hard. And when you whine that you can't get a job because of this influx of FTs, the statistics will show "Singapore and PRs" have engineering jobs because these FTs became PRs. Dont forget, we are always lumped together with PRs. For what I dont know!

Stop blaming foreigners. If foreginer influx and cheap labor and hard work was the only reason for FT import, then they would do it in all areas and not just engineering. Why would banks not hire cheap labor and make them work more ??? The fact is that Singaporeans do not produce enough number of good-enough engineers.

Look at ur research labs like A-star. I had applied there as a foreigner and the very next day they called me for an interview and offered a job. I was a fresh grad student from NUS. Ofcoz, A-star does not pay that well so I did not go for it. But, where are ur singaporean engineers. Stop blaming FTs. The truth is that singaporean engineers are not capable to earning high salaries. And those who are , go to banking n finance.

The turth is a mediocre engineer can still earn better in finance. Just bcus the salaries are slightly higher in finance sector, does not mean that people are brainier. But to succeed n earn well in engineering, u need to be smart which most local people are not.

No way
 

What an angry reply...

I'll just like to state a few points here...

I was an engineering graduate and I did my internship in A-star. Life as a researcher is rather stagnant. Unlike what you mentioned, I find that A-star does pay well. Maybe one man's food is another man's poison, but the A-star starting pay is definitely above the industry average for a fresh engineering graduate.

Yes, indeed, many engineering graduates turn over to the financial sector. Why? Because if you can achieve the highest returns while utilizing the lowest resources, then your resources have been used efficiently. Although the finance sector might require long working hours, the pay increase in the starting years is rather substantial depending on performance and your contacts. In this sector, your most important resource in terms of career advancement (time) would be made use of efficiently.

Needless to say, this is also possible as an engineer, but the chances are lower. Engineering is a stable career and you will find that your bosses will be rather unwilling to leave because they are sitting in their office with a comfortable paycheck and steady job. That is why it might take many more years to jump into a technical management role as compared to the finance sector. However, I do not agree that a mediocre engineer can do just as well in the finance sector. The financial sector is a cut-throat industry, where performance is key.

I am an engineer myself, and I wouldn't consider myself very smart or very capable. I too have considered moving on to the finance sector, but it is indeed hard to change your path when you are drawing a $4300 salary (excluding bonuses) after 1.5 years of working experience. I think the catch is all about choosing the right industry to be an engineer.
No prizes for guessing which industry. =)

I was not angry. but as a foreigner, i find it weird when people make a 1 point agenda to blame foreigners. A-star pays 4500SGD to fresh Phd. I think thats low. Considering that Singapore has become costlier over the years. 5 yrs back , 4500 was ok. But now , its simply not enough. The pay is stagnant in places like NUS, A-star, etc. I dont work in Singapore ritenow but I was thinking that MNCs mite pay well. But engineering MNCs are not there in Singapore.

Clearly, engineers who dont make it high in their fields try to change to finance n banking. What I meant is that an average guy in banking perhaps makes a little more than a guy with the same caliber in engineering. I see every other engineer who does see a bright future contemplating a switch to Banking and Finance. Clearly they think they can do better in that area. So, I assume it should be slightly easier than technology.

Some engineers make good money. But the majority dont and the reason being, they are average. And when average people get frustrated n loose enthusiasm, they want to switch to whatever is lucrative.

Can I know are you a 2nd upper/1st class honours grad?
Are you still working in A*Star after you grad? if not Private sector or government sector?
You grad in which year?
Which industry are you in as an engineer?

I find it very curious how you manage to get a pay of $4300 after 1.5 years of exp from fresh grad?

I was also an engineer grad from ntu 2nd lower, after 2 year 8mth in the same company, my basic is still less than $3200.

Can you tell how u get to $4300 basic in 1.5 years

Contrary to what you believe, foreign Engineers are hired because they are not as smart as locals and they are mostly "yes man". And of course, MOST of them are cheaper than locals to begin with, bringing down the salaries of Engineers. This is one of the reason why productivity of Singapore has fallen over the years.

A-Star don't pay well? If you still don't know why, read what I write again.

That's because most salaries in Singapore have not been increasing much for the last few years. And the reason being the huge foreign influx. You need to grow up, wake up, read more, think more, widen your view, and get out of your well, you little whining frog. How many highly paid Engineers do you know? How many switched to Banking and Finance as you claim? No Engineering MNC in Singapore? You are really ignorant. If everybody makes good money, the cost will be too much for any company. There are many factors that contribute to financial success. I am so glad that you don't work in Singapore, we don't need smart ass like you here.

I am a 2nd upper mech engine grad from NTU. Graduated 2 years back, slack for 0.5 years. So that's why my working experience is only 1.5 years. My basic was $3.4k straight after I graduated. I am in the private sector not govt.

In the oil and gas industry, business is very fast paced and the clients are very demanding and I see this as a good thing. This allows you to showcase your talents. I worked extremely hard for 1 year in a MNC this industry and when my boss left for another company, he brought me along with him, of course with a nice pay increase, since I sacrificed my annual bonus to join him. ;)

Oh just to put this into perspective, my boss is not my dad or a rich relative and I wasn't born with a silver spoon. I am just an ordinary humble engineer running the rat race.

Which industry are you in Unregistered?

Hi,

I am also an engineer graduated from NTU with 1.5 yrs of experience. I am currently in a manufacturing based MNC working as a production engineer, and i draw about 3.5k. I am lucky to be in the best performing department in my coy, with good immediate boss and superb HOD, coupled with experienced-yet-willing-to-teach senior, which is a rare senior i guess. The supervisors in average have more than 15yrs of experience, i only need to ask and make decisions. I have chances to work with all levels including top management, and engaged in multiple multi-functional projects, and some management level work, which i like a lot compared to engineering responsibilities. Like Unregistered, i also worked my ass off and i have gained reputation in the coy.

But i have tendered my resignation 3 weeks ago. I have decided to go have a try in another industry. Many colleagues were surprised as I am a A-performer with good recognition from all levels, but yet i chose to leave. My reasons are simple. I want money fast, i do not mind putting in long hours of work, facing difficult clients, and most importantly I want instant rewards. I can stay long in this engineering line, outlast fellow locals, (Foreigners have much lower chance in rising all the way up) and hopefully seat in middle management maybe 10 years down the road. But that is all 10 yrs down the road although it comes with stable rise, stable position, as long as the company earns, you are safe. Engineering jobs have its pros too, you just have to weigh the cons and find your path. As for me, the cons way outweigh the pros, so exit is the only option.

There is no end to comparing material gains in this society at this era. IMO, time can be better spent on trying to know what you want, and get to know how to get what you want.

un
 

very motivational speech and I believe it's from bottom of your heart.
i like that...

Can I ask which field are you going to?
Because I'm about to make a similar decision as yours...

whacking Mr
 

Whats motivational about the speech. All he is saying is that he is an excellent engineer and is switching fields for more money. Isnt this the story of most engineers who are stuck with slow pay rises.

And all this within 1-2 years of job. They decided that Engineering is not for them so get into something lucrative soon.

Yes. You are right.
It's just that for each individual one of them, it's a big decision to make.

Although we don't know how many of them eventually take action...

Actually, your pay is not bad for an engineer with 1.5 years of experience. May I ask which industry are you moving on to? Do you regret not moving on any sooner? How much do you know/ how many people do you know in the same industry? I've been working as an engineer for 1.5 weeks after graduating from NTU mech engine and I already feel obliged to move out... Though my pay is rather comfortable I would say but still its nothing outrageous at all.

is there any engineer in this fricking singapore who is happy with his life , work n money...

Satisfaction is relative not absolute
 

I'm pretty sure there are many engineers who are more than satisfied with a salary that many others would consider mediocre. Besides, satisfaction is relative not absolute. Hell if I had I hundred dollar bill in my pocket now I would be gleaming, but if it was someone else he might be frowning.

The thing about making money is that you can be happy but never contented, especially if you are working for someone.