Really that bad for engineers?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The smartest people don't necessarily make the most money. Those who make the most money aren't necessarily the smartest. But they like to think they are. Those who make the most money aren't the most productive either. I would sooner argue that an engineer's work is of greater value than, say, a banker (nothing against a banker, just giving an example).

Exactly. The parents of my tuition kids in private housing are all towkays. Not smartest, but street smart and money smart. Imagine, if you are already brainy, and you compete with these towkays, won't you be more successful than they are? Of course, there's the luck factor as well, but for the sake of argument, let's assume everyone has same luck.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The smartest people don't necessarily make the most money. Those who make the most money aren't necessarily the smartest. But they like to think they are. Those who make the most money aren't the most productive either. I would sooner argue that an engineer's work is of greater value than, say, a banker (nothing against a banker, just giving an example).

An engineer's work maybe of greater value and contribution but in sg nobody would give two hoots for whatever you've done unless you can make lots of money from it. Pride as an engineer? None. Money? None.

After working a few years as an Engineer, I think I knew the reasons behind this declining industry in SG, particularly in the electronic and embedded software department. In MNC, most of the engineers are only doing maintenance/ support work which requires very little skill. In SME, the engineers are stuck doing some uncompetitive OEM products which makes very little profit for the company. Then there are the companies that survive on Government funded projects like ST electronic (which IMO, such companies are also uncompetitive but there is no need for them to be competitive). Engineers working for these companies will have difficulties in honing/improving or learn new skill and their talent will not be used to full potential. We no longer have the expertise to compete with the likes of Apple, Sumsung or even logitech and ASUS. In fact, when I look at the counterfeit or innovative electronic products designed in China, I feel that our engineering capabilities are even inferior to theirs. I also do not think that by letting in more foreigners will help to boost our engineering industry. If you take a moment to think, you will realise that there is no incentive for top foreign talented Engineers from APPLE, microsoft, Google, Sumsung, SONY etc to move to Singapore since i am sure they are paid alot more in their own countries, and perhaps are having a better life/work balance too. The engineers we attract from overseas are IMO, very mediocre and cannot compete on the world's stage. All they do is to further drive down the wage of the low skilled local engineers.
Engineers were well respected in the 80s and 90s because a significant percentage of our GPD comes from electronic manufacturing. As our wages grew out of those developing world's salary, we lost the competitive edge in that sector and gradually the manufacturing is moved offshore.

If you want to know how the Engineering industry in SG is relevant today, you can visit the Communicasia exhibition which is held every year in June. The previous exhibition shows me that the engineering sector will be focusing on 1. Satellite internet for shipping 2. Cable layout for internet 3. some Mobile device development. The first one will means that Engineers will be on a contract job to create internet working on cargo ships. The second one most likely will be the fiber internet network layout for whole of SG. The third one I am guessing that there will be more companies coming here to seek help from Infineon's expertise on mobile chipset and network. In short, I do not think that prospect is looking too good for engineers here.

Occasionally there will be people who claimed that there are engineers that are earning a good pay (7-8k/month). The percentage of such engineers is very small and honestly speaking, 7-8k salary is nothing to shout about too.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

hmm im a mech enging student now at local uni, but after looking at some of the threads ard in forum saying how bad the pay of engineers are, it sort of make me sad lol.

i like engineering and its something i look forward to do in the future(i cant stand office jobs man), and one day i hope i can contribute wat i can as an individual to make this place a better place to live in with better technology.

but from some forums i saw the things they said is quite different from wat u mention? like the pay even after 5 years is only ard 3-5k? and ot for engineer dont get paid? and our job dont get appreciated by pple and stuff, and its not realli abt the money, but when pple only pays u this little it just goes to show how irrelevant we are to the company. i also have seen friends who have masters in engg just everyday stay in office surf net, though balonglong, but one day surely will kena axe like this rite lol. and how far can we go if we onli can be liddat...

i dun mind getting low pay at first, to me i feel job satisfaction is more impt. now wif all these pple suaning us engg i realli feel lost. i will like to hear more from real engineers(like you) who have experience and the expertise to go on far in ur career.

and u have gotten ur degree and started ur career quite sometime ago, during the engg boom period ba, hence for now will it be much more difficult for us engineer in this era?

and if we engineers realli get sooooo look down on in company, might as well design our own things and start our own biz.

1) In general, 5k for 2nd upper/1st class and constantly good performers only. Of course, the pay is definitely higher for industries like oil and gas.

2) In general, low initial starting salary as an engineer = low pay forever as engineer. It'll take A LOT of hard work to hit the 5k mentioned above if starting pay is low. Ask the old birds around.

3) you won't get the job satisfaction you are looking for working in sg if you are the hardcore engineering type.

4) An advice so you won't get a shock when moving into the working world: many, many times people in HR and low level secretarial jobs are treated better than engineers.

[seablue]

kinda glad i decide not to do engineering... after all these info about the industry...

Don't waste your life away in engineering...
Look at those retrenched engineers in their 40s.... all end up driving taxi and you'll know why.. It doesn't pay at all...
The corporations that enslaved them sucked the life out of them by making them sweat long hours for a few pathetic dollars.. at the end of the day when there're spent... they all got flush down the toilet bowl... they'll then lure another batch of unknowing young chap into the same **** hole to repeat the cycle.. Dun be fooled by the advertisements they put on TV about what ******** rewarding career!!! If it's really so good... then dun have to advertise all all right??!! Phui...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't waste your life away in engineering...
Look at those retrenched engineers in their 40s.... all end up driving taxi and you'll know why.. It doesn't pay at all...
The corporations that enslaved them sucked the life out of them by making them sweat long hours for a few pathetic dollars.. at the end of the day when there're spent... they all got flush down the toilet bowl... they'll then lure another batch of unknowing young chap into the same **** hole to repeat the cycle.. Dun be fooled by the advertisements they put on TV about what ******** rewarding career!!! If it's really so good... then dun have to advertise all all right??!! Phui...

In the 1990s, many young impressionable 3As A-level students go into engineering after reading the booming semiconductor industry paying fresh graduates as high as 5k if one work on OT. Many are lured into it, and studied microelectronics in Electrical engineering.
Today, most of these engineers have left this industry because of retrenchment, salary freeze and zero prospect. Just look like chartered semiconductor history, you will understand.

Many of engineers went on to work as taxi drivers, real estate agent, insurance agent and teachers.... Dont end like us - used to be top students, now struggling by to strike a living in Singapore with ever increasing cost of living.....

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't waste your life away in engineering...
Look at those retrenched engineers in their 40s.... all end up driving taxi and you'll know why.. It doesn't pay at all...
The corporations that enslaved them sucked the life out of them by making them sweat long hours for a few pathetic dollars.. at the end of the day when there're spent... they all got flush down the toilet bowl... they'll then lure another batch of unknowing young chap into the same **** hole to repeat the cycle.. Dun be fooled by the advertisements they put on TV about what ******** rewarding career!!! If it's really so good... then dun have to advertise all all right??!! Phui...

Ya, come to the think of it, I rarely see adverts about jobs or degrees in the finance sectors like those engineering ones on buses and mrts.

But of course... Good things where got the need to advertise some more right??... It is those very unpopular professions that everyone is running away from that needs to engage actors and actresses to pretend that the job is super fulfilling despite a pathetic salary.. Those advertisements help to paint a nicer picture of the jobs.. I pity the fools that will actually believe what they see on TV... sigh... It's a scam!!! Please dun be taken in by it.. There is a surplus of taxi drivers in S'pore already hor...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ya, come to the think of it, I rarely see adverts about jobs or degrees in the finance sectors like those engineering ones on buses and mrts.

because those in finance do not take bus and MRT unlike those engineers?