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Really that bad for engineers?

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  #561 (permalink)  
Old 18-04-2012, 09:04 AM
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The Richards of life sciences will tell you to venture out and be more passionate. Then when you can't survive well, he will say it's because you suck!

Didn't Philip Yeo say that if you don't have a PhD in a life science discipline, you are only qualified to wash test tubes? And after saying this and collecting enough pay to have income tax in the 6-figure range (he hinted in an interview), what's he doing now?

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  #562 (permalink)  
Old 19-04-2012, 11:33 AM
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Is engineer in the civil service also as poorly paid?

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  #563 (permalink)  
Old 20-04-2012, 03:32 PM
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Is engineer in the civil service also as poorly paid?
Yes, they are.... It is a known fact that the career progression for an engineer is much slower than an economist in the civil service... Somemore engineer work until no day no night on site, often work OT... Pay so low.. somemore when things don't work out, still kenna blame...
But the economist work relax office hours in a safe, comfortable aircon enviroment.. Just use the mouth to talk... Salary higher than the stupid engineer...

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  #564 (permalink)  
Old 20-04-2012, 04:13 PM
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Yes, they are.... It is a known fact that the career progression for an engineer is much slower than an economist in the civil service... Somemore engineer work until no day no night on site, often work OT... Pay so low.. somemore when things don't work out, still kenna blame...
But the economist work relax office hours in a safe, comfortable aircon enviroment.. Just use the mouth to talk... Salary higher than the stupid engineer...
All engineers are stupid. The fact that they choose a profession that pays them much lower salary than other people who create less real value shows that all engineers are idiots.

Bankers are the smartest.

To those who say money is not everything, you should go to Africa and build their sewage systems.
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  #565 (permalink)  
Old 20-04-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Yes, they are.... It is a known fact that the career progression for an engineer is much slower than an economist in the civil service... Somemore engineer work until no day no night on site, often work OT... Pay so low.. somemore when things don't work out, still kenna blame...
But the economist work relax office hours in a safe, comfortable aircon enviroment.. Just use the mouth to talk... Salary higher than the stupid engineer...
how about those DSTA engineer ?

They are not from civil service, they are from public service statboard!
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  #566 (permalink)  
Old 20-04-2012, 11:46 PM
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I work in the ministry and i was an engineer with an engineering degree from NUS. After joining the civil service, the background does not matter much already. What matters most is the honours.

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Is engineer in the civil service also as poorly paid?
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  #567 (permalink)  
Old 21-04-2012, 12:57 AM
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I work in the ministry and i was an engineer with an engineering degree from NUS. After joining the civil service, the background does not matter much already. What matters most is the honours.
Yeah... Even if you are a local 2nd Upper class honors graduate... you still have to smell the fart of the overseas 1st class scholars... They will be younger than you when they trump you and you have to report tot them... Some of the more arrogant ones even begin to display supremacy over you when they know they are being groomed by management to eventually become your boss.. Can even order you around to do things... Sometimes i really wonder if this CEP system solely based on academic elitism is really correct... those at the bottom either suck it or resign... Sad man...
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  #568 (permalink)  
Old 21-04-2012, 01:00 PM
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The CEP thing used in civil service is a load of crap, which explains the mentality of what we are seeing now in the incumbent civil servants/Govt (in Spore, these 2 are mixed up sadly). Granted the CEP may be reviewed once every 1-2 years, but the initial CEP score will already prejudice the person.

How can one's estimated potential be gauged at the first 2-3 interviews ? If so, alot of the towkays in Spore who are non grads (some PSLE only) will be ranked at the bottom.

I personally believe scholars are clever until proven stupid whilst its the other way round for non scholars. But for the latter, if they prove themselves at work, why is there still a glass ceiling for them to move further up in the civil service ? All should be granted an equal chance.

This admin service platform in civil service is also a load of crap. These people are earning what a trader will earn in a bank/trading house and have no P&L responsibilities. Sucking up to bosses, writing policy papers, etc.

I personally will love to see these scholars exit the system and try their hands in a corporate entity with P&L responsibilities; cut out the sucking up & bullshit, craft the plan and deliver the results. $ and cents talk at the end of the day, not the wayang and opera.

Disclaimer - I have never been in the civil service because I am a local farmer U grad with 2nd Uppers, so decided against joining such a system. Have been with local and foreign MNCs for the last 10 years.
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  #569 (permalink)  
Old 22-04-2012, 04:06 AM
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Default Its a much coveted profession becoming unnatural.

Truth is, an engineer is still a much coveted and universally stable profession, as a pathway to many senior management positions.
Many large MNCs, including non-technology companies have engineers as their CEOs/COOs.

Becoming a full-fledged qualified engineer has high-entry barriers due to its arduous academic training requirements.
The more difficult it is, the more rewarding, or so it normally defines as always.

They built bridges, launch rockets to the moon and built ipads.
Engineers are much subjected to almost every non-engineering person's secret envy and much more to ridicules and blames for disasters.

It is always easier for engineers whom have nearly fried their brains memorizing formulas to go into business training than for business students to get into engineering. If engineers are drastically reduced by a huge quota, then we will have to worry about facing technological stagnation, which is not ideal if we aspire for more advancements to improve lives. One can’t escape the significance of technology.

Non-Engineering folks both love and loathe its power over them. So they suck their juices through doing sales and loan them more money(bankers) to suck more juices
While delegating them to mostly back end mundane jobs (younger ones, that is) and boast of gaining higher incomes to satisfy their egos.

However, back to economics of demand and supply. As Supreme Chancellor says: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

In this case in Singapore, the power has progressively become unnatural and stinking.

When there is over- supply, especially due to insufficient controls on influx of Foreign Talent engineers, there goes its problem.

It leads to intense competition with increasing number of aspiring students skipping this prestigious route altogether to go into
Other professions such as finance, banking and business development.

Basic human assessment leads to why do we have to suffer so much in studying this course and worse still in some engineering sectors,
to become specialized til out of jobs?

And so, the caveats are becoming more prominent..:

Unemployed 53-year-old Singaporean with NUS engineering honours degree turns to scavenging trash to feed his family

Unemployed NUS graduate decides to become “Karung guni” man Editorial TR EMERITUS


An engineer who was retrenched in 2007 had to resort to scavenging for rubbish to make a living and support his family of 7.

53-year-old Mr Koh is an engineering graduate from NUS with honours. After working for some years, he finally landed himself a top job in a big company in 1993. Subsequently, he worked there for the next 14 years till 2007 when he was laid off. Although the company wrote him a good testimonial, it wasn’t easy for him to find another job. After he was laid off, there was a change in his outlook and he began to centre his life around his family more than his work.

He has 4 daughters, ages from 5 to 9. His mother lives with him. Together with his wife and himself, he has to support a family of 7. So, why did Mr Koh decide to get into rag and bone (“karung guni”) business after he was laid off? As jobs were hard to come by especially for people at his age, he said that he wanted to get into eco-friendly business.

“Some of the thrown-away electrical appliances only have minor problems. It’s a waste to see them being thrown away. After I repair them and clean them up, they are as good as new.”

In fact, the fridge, kettle, fan, etc in his house were all salvaged from the rubbish dumps. He has been picking rubbish for the last 3 years. Every morning, he will get up before the sun is up. Wearing a T-shirt and a pair of shorts, he will be the first to go to the dump sites to look for good items to pick.

“I start work at 5am every morning. I will go to the rubbish chutes and HDB corridors to look for discarded items. I have to often endure cold stares from some of the residents.”

He recounted that sometimes, some people who saw him pushing a cart of discarded items would immediately cover their noses and avoid him. Others would throw sarcastic remarks at him.

“They thought I’m an illiterate who goes around picking disused items. I’m a university graduate!”

As to how much Mr Koh is earning from his rag and bone trade, he declined to say. He only said that he makes enough to support his family.

Before Mr Koh was retrenched, he disclosed that he was making $8,000 a month with bonus up to 5 months. He said that few months before he was being laid off, he whistle-blew on certain procedures in the company for being not proper. He felt that this might be the reason he was laid off.

“On the day I was laid off, it was raining and only 1 person from the company came out to see me off. It was pretty gloomy.”

Mr Koh recounted another incident. On one of the mornings, he was pushing his cart of loaded “junks” in a HDB estate at Toh Guan Rd. He stepped away to get his bike for a moment. When he returned, the whole cart and “junks” disappeared. At the time, there was a Bangla cleaner around. Mr Koh saw the Bangla cleaner came out from the utility room. The Bangla denied seeing his cart. When Mr Koh wanted to enter the utility room to check, the Bangla told him there was no key. So, Mr Koh had no choice but to call the police. The police came and asked to see the supervisor. The supervisor came and opened the door to the utility room. Mr Koh’s “missing” cart together with the items were found inside the room.

The supervisor after questioning the Bangla cleaner, took out $100 and gave it to Mr Koh, hoping that Mr Koh would let things rest. Mr Koh said, “After being busy for one whole morning, I was insulted by this. I feel very frustrated.”
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  #570 (permalink)  
Old 22-04-2012, 10:28 AM
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Thanks for this cautionary tale, Many A-level school leavers with A in math and physics including me are not applying to engineering course, we are going to smu biz or ntu accountancy.
It doesnt take a economics student to figure out the effects of Oversupply of FT and slowing demand due hollowing out of manufacturing/engineering base.
All top students with exception of Astar scholars are not entering engineering...
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