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-   -   Really that bad for engineers? (https://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/866-really-bad-engineers.html)

Unregistered 03-02-2012 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20098)
count yourself lucky to write these things here without attracting poison detractors. They have been somehow more neutralize by truth-speakers. Earlier on this forum, they are really extremely acrimonious trying very best to hype up engineer's salary.

By the way, I knew few who can make more than 5k after 3-4 years. Those are normally FT indians who play race card. the hiring ft indian managers are willing to give them high pay and to put them in key positions. Their basic may be 4k++ to 5k but during the last decades of good years, if factor in their bonus, they would be equivalent to 5-6k of "normal" engineer pay.

I would like to tell u a personal story. I hate to work in banks because my religion forbids usury. So how do you do, my fellow christians and muslim bankerer?

I send an application to citi. WTF 3 interviewers all ft indians. I walk into their dept, CANNOT see one chinese.

Their questions are extremely poisonous, a few questions shows that managers do not understand the technical part but just to bullshit and give me trouble. Nevertheless, they cannot find anything wrong with me.

A FT singh ask me to code a "singleton" real time.

A wrote a piece of code without declaring member "class pointers" to own class as "static". He looks ecstatic. He said, "i have no questions for you anymore".

Citi then inform me I do miserably.

Subsequently, I realise this is ft indian trick. they see u competent and ask until a question you dono. they say "i have no more question for you" and tell you interview over.

I asked an Indian friend. he is quite honest to tell me group-ism of ft indian community. he told me he cruise through interview without nasty questions and those interviewer treat him as buddy.

Let me tell u something. I have been interviewing quite a fair bit of Indians in my careers. My impression of them is they only know how to talk but don't know how to do. Ask them why the chicken cross the road they tell you all sort of grandmother storys. As them a question when I say they are wrong they tell u that I am wrong and give me 101 reason why I am wrong.

My friends who have been interviewing candidates actively have the same observations as well.

There are capable Indians as well but they are rare

Unregistered 03-02-2012 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20331)
Let me tell u something. I have been interviewing quite a fair bit of Indians in my careers. My impression of them is they only know how to talk but don't know how to do. Ask them why the chicken cross the road they tell you all sort of grandmother storys. As them a question when I say they are wrong they tell u that I am wrong and give me 101 reason why I am wrong.

My friends who have been interviewing candidates actively have the same observations as well.

There are capable Indians as well but they are rare

I used to have a Indian colleague. In the group presentation, she always talk coock. The boss like her very much but everyone loath and despise her.

Normally when engineer make a wrong presentation with colleague and being pointed out, that engineer will apologise. Technical issues are black and white. But that lady was "very confident".

I remember she fight very hard once, telling our team members that some WinCE do not have bootloader. All the colleague shake our head. Nevertheless, Singapore engineering environment is always poisoned with politics. The boss protect her like mad.

I have never met a good Indian engineer here. (I believe many of those in USA are good). That lady always come late leave early, and yet boss like her very much.

In general, I observe boss always like Indians and oppress Singaporeans. I observe that most boss in Singapore are very weak in technical. Here, when you get promoted, it does not mean u are good technically but good at making your boss happy. After rounds of iteration, many up there are scumbags.

From a spiritual point of view, I realise that scumbags attracts one another. They especially like people who can talk, and who stab colleague.

I believe we cannot advance forward without undoing the damages of the social and political control that the government impose on the workers.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20333)
Let me tell u something. I have been interviewing quite a fair bit of Indians in my careers. My impression of them is they only know how to talk but don't know how to do. Ask them why the chicken cross the road they tell you all sort of grandmother storys. As them a question when I say they are wrong they tell u that I am wrong and give me 101 reason why I am wrong.

My friends who have been interviewing candidates actively have the same observations as well.

There are capable Indians as well but they are rare.

All I have to say to fellow Singaporeans is, if the interviewing manager is Indian, be prepared. Indians invite non-india indian for interview not because he wants to hire, but to satisfy formalities of HR. He next thing he will do is to make the candidate feel very bad. Then he will announce to everyone Singaporeans cannot make it, only FT indians are good.

I once called to interview by a so call promising startup ixxxx (wait a minute, funded by singapore tax payer). I went inside the company, every single soul i see are indians.

The interviewing manager is a ft indian formerly working in a*.

i told the manager my background is electrical engineering and i deal with drivers and system software. you know what happen, that manager all the questions on computer science topic.

for the whole interview, i was ask sorting algorithm, searches, recursion, worse best case formulation...etc. I get damn sick at it. all engineers knew that it is impossible for engineerings to cover all area and each engineer has their special focus area.

Another company, kana interview by ft indian also. He throw questions he himselves cannot understand. I said I did software implementation of a certain communication protocol standards.

He interrogate me as if i am a criminal. ask me how come i do this and do that. then he implemented things in a easier way. But then he cannot explain.

He keep on his interrogation, and "click", I finally realise he did not know understand the intricate details of technical implementation. I probe further, and realise he uses a "straight forward IC implementation". While I am doing things from scratch.

But he conduct interview as if he is extremely smart (but actually he is stupid) make me sick to the core.

I bet these FTs only do that on Singaporeans.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 04:20 AM

got a PRC lady colleague. her PRC university is darn obscure open shop in year 200x, this century. she from comp sci do not anything. her working experience 2 years nia nia.

In this company, i from ntu and my colleague nus, both EEE. he got 2 upper, gpa nearly 1st class honor 3.49 out of 4.

u know what happened? that Comp Sci PRC girl got a offer from Axx in woodland a large semi-con company.

COMP SCI go semi-con????

me and my colleague applied this Axx, never even receive a single reply. We EEE semi-con don want us, want Comp Sci girl, junk university open shop in 200x, 2 years working experience.

In engineering in SG, you don just deal with technicals. you deal with RACISM.

Anonymous 03-02-2012 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20335)
got a PRC lady colleague. her PRC university is darn obscure open shop in year 200x, this century. she from comp sci do not anything. her working experience 2 years nia nia.

In this company, i from ntu and my colleague nus, both EEE. he got 2 upper, gpa nearly 1st class honor 3.49 out of 4.

u know what happened? that Comp Sci PRC girl got a offer from Axx in woodland a large semi-con company.

COMP SCI go semi-con????

me and my colleague applied this Axx, never even receive a single reply. We EEE semi-con don want us, want Comp Sci girl, junk university open shop in 200x, 2 years working experience.

In engineering in SG, you don just deal with technicals. you deal with RACISM.

could have been the interviews or some other reason.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 09:47 AM

Singaporeans have been brought up to think "muti-culturalism" and frown on rascism. Especially when making a professional decision, we try to remind ourselves to be fair when making decisions relating to minority races etc.

Foreigners? You must understand they come from a totally different background. India / China are only recently booming and with a large society breeds a very survivalistic frame of thinking. Morals, ethics are secondary. Self comes first, second is family, third is immediate society. Especially when they are in foreign land, most try to "group" together, form their small societies, help out each other.

Once you put an Indian FT into a position to hire. You will see mini enclaves starting to build up. Inner circle. Community. I help you, you help me. We protect each other.

Not just engineering... it is in every profession. I feel it as well in banking.

You think Citi is bad? It is just starting. Look at SCB... even worse. By the way, heard from my Indian friend that these FT Indians even discriminate against SG Indians.

You go to some Condos, you will find mini China and mini India FT communities building up. check the BBQ pits on weekends you will know which Condo they "attack" already.

Worse, mini communities also forming up and "attacking" Malaysian golf courses. Korean "raiders".

In Singapore, we feel the "impact" on jobs, housing, transport and even schools. Look at our "local" football team now versus our SG team just 10 years ago. You'd see the rapid "progress" we have made here in SG.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20342)
Singaporeans have been brought up to think "muti-culturalism" and frown on rascism. Especially when making a professional decision, we try to remind ourselves to be fair when making decisions relating to minority races etc.

Foreigners? You must understand they come from a totally different background. India / China are only recently booming and with a large society breeds a very survivalistic frame of thinking. Morals, ethics are secondary. Self comes first, second is family, third is immediate society. Especially when they are in foreign land, most try to "group" together, form their small societies, help out each other.

Once you put an Indian FT into a position to hire. You will see mini enclaves starting to build up. Inner circle. Community. I help you, you help me. We protect each other.

Not just engineering... it is in every profession. I feel it as well in banking.

You think Citi is bad? It is just starting. Look at SCB... even worse. By the way, heard from my Indian friend that these FT Indians even discriminate against SG Indians.

You go to some Condos, you will find mini China and mini India FT communities building up. check the BBQ pits on weekends you will know which Condo they "attack" already.

Worse, mini communities also forming up and "attacking" Malaysian golf courses. Korean "raiders".

In Singapore, we feel the "impact" on jobs, housing, transport and even schools. Look at our "local" football team now versus our SG team just 10 years ago. You'd see the rapid "progress" we have made here in SG.

You know PAP are actually screwing a whole generation of Singaporeans young graduates when they open FT flood gate big big. our technology sector are not sabotage by engineers. the engineers are hardworking.

We are sabotage by back bitting managers. In SG, you get promoted not base on competency. When people promote you, they are telling you that boss like you very much.

For those who are technically strong, if boss don like, they dig a big hole for such engineer to fall. It was PAP policy to create docile workers by flooding market with FTs. Docile workers and aggressive boss are 3 side of a coin. So at the end, while NICs such as taiwan shown proud results in advancement of technology, we languish.

Shame to PAP, we do not deserve such a bad engineering sector as we are able to hire from a pool of 7 billion candidates all over the world. LKY and his lackies simply do not understand how to bring up science and technology.

LKY background is bloodsucking lawyer. In Singapore, boss cannot spend a day without playing politics and making himself feel good with stooges.

In Taiwan, they are lucky to be lead by Chiang Ching Kuo. His background is communist, started his career as factory worker. Chiang understand workers and capital formation. Today Foxconn of Taiwan hire 1.2 million of people.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 03:25 PM

Think the issue is not just with foreigners. in the government sector where my husband works at (where there are very few PRs/foreigners, mostly Singaporean) the engineers are also leaving in doves. The issue is there is no good transition plan with the retiring, older Singaporean, and young people feel leftout/dejected when they're not learning anything. engineering is a mentoring process. That's why they left for the "easier" financial sector which also pays more.

Unregistered 03-02-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20355)
Think the issue is not just with foreigners. in the government sector where my husband works at (where there are very few PRs/foreigners, mostly Singaporean) the engineers are also leaving in doves. The issue is there is no good transition plan with the retiring, older Singaporean, and young people feel leftout/dejected when they're not learning anything. engineering is a mentoring process. That's why they left for the "easier" financial sector which also pays more.

Today, the old folks nowadays never teach at all. Last time, yes, senior teach but they will not share generously. Today, they don come and play you good enough. Today, the situation is like people throw you in the sea and you learn how to swim. And hope that people forgive your mistake and give you sufficient time to pick up.

In civil service, PAP create such a backbitting zero sum game culture that your colleague actually wish you to fail. In government job every year must rank and condemn at least 10%. So people actually want to sabo colleague so that they get rank higher.

Instead of creating a healthy environment PAP create some of the most odious coporate culture. We are doom if we dont get rid of PAP

Unregistered 03-02-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 20356)
Today, the old folks nowadays never teach at all. Last time, yes, senior teach but they will not share generously. Today, they don come and play you good enough. Today, the situation is like people throw you in the sea and you learn how to swim. And hope that people forgive your mistake and give you sufficient time to pick up.

In civil service, PAP create such a backbitting zero sum game culture that your colleague actually wish you to fail. In government job every year must rank and condemn at least 10%. So people actually want to sabo colleague so that they get rank higher.

Instead of creating a healthy environment PAP create some of the most odious coporate culture. We are doom if we dont get rid of PAP

Why do you blame it all on PAP? Is backstabbing an Asian trait?


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