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-   -   Really that bad for engineers? (https://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/866-really-bad-engineers.html)

Bean 05-01-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermit (Post 19410)
The Study Engineering lie continues.... I heard that lots and lots of ITE students are choosing to study Avionics ... I wonder if history is repeating itself as with Mechatronics and Games Developing etc etc....

Avionics = aircraft electronic......sux pay sux increment......GG:(

Unregistered 05-01-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19405)
Funny how people disrespect this group of 'gods' that built their world.....

For those still studying or intend to enter engineering, you have my encouragement.

Even if after a few years, you decided you lost your passion for engineering, you can always join a different sectors. Your analytical reasonings, your multi-tasking skills, solution based problem solving etc., these are soft skills you can bring to every where.
I heard of engineering grads going to financial sectors, sales etc......
But I have never heard of financial grads being able to switch to engineering fields.

Good luck.

of couese, engineers need good luck.

nobody want go engineering, everybody want get out engineering.

Unregistered 06-01-2012 11:28 AM

I have to say I disagreed with you. You are only able to see near future but neglected the long term welfare of a nation.

Would you rather have your infrastructures built by engineers whose ability is doubtful?
Are you prepared to accept the consequences of your house collapsing, your electronics exploding in your face etc.?

I am not painting a rosy pictures for engineers wannabe. It is tough job. How impressive your education is ain't good enough. You must be humble and learn your trade. And like all trade, efforts do not guarantee success.

6 figures salary is in fact nothing in SGP. This I agree with you. But at late 30s, I am very sure I am at least on top of 80% of financial graduates of the same age.

You kept emphasizing that financial industry is prepared to offer 6 figure for engineers to join them. But you never explain why.
Every year, thousands of students graduated for financial industries to pick. Why the hell are they prepared to pay good money to engineering graduates, who know nuts about financial world? And that is why I mentioned that transition to other industry will never pose a problem for engineers.

What you never share here is that financial sector is a hire and fire industry. And luck plays a very big part in your career. And the office politics involved in moving up.
The very few good players, will probably have the best of the world during boom time. What about the many thousands who can't make it? Clerks? Admin? Or the many vice presidents who try to sell some financial products to the poor engineers?

All trades arethe same. Only a handful move to the top. The rest linger around the remaining hierarchy levels. While I am not insisting you will make your riches in engineering, I am definite you will do no wrong in choosing engineering as your first degree.

Btw, years of engineering had given me ability to foresee a bit of the future. The next wave of 'foreign talents' from India will be entering the financial sectors. From top to bottom, they will be replacing the 'better' paid. And not neglecting the 'foreign' talents from Philippines taking over the service sector of the financial industries. This has already happened in a local bank and many foreign banks based in SGP. Euro debt crisis is bracing to happen in second half of 2012 and spreading its full effect to Asia in 2013. What advices can the many local talented financial experts share?
Print more money? That depreciates the wealth of a nation. Example is US of A. They have dug a hole so big only another war can save them.
Blames merry go round? Ostrich mentality. Example is EU. After a year, the debt had grown and spread.
The only solution left is writing off the debts, resulting in some major banks to collapse and let another crisis to reset the world back to equilibrium.
A financial expert will understand what I will do in the second half of 2012 and whole of 2013.

My friend, is the above foresight reason enough for investment banks to pay me 7 figures since I will be raking back billions for them?

Unfortunately for me, I decided to use my hands to build a real useful world instead of plotting for another disaster to happen.
And a 6 figure salary is really more than enough for me. In my perspective, I feel my lifestyle now rather extravagant and luxurious.

And this is the very reason why I call my fellow engineers 'Gods'.
Sorry, I neglected my humility.
And plz don't put down bangalas. They contributed more to nation building than a lot of locals.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19408)
While I admire your passion for engineering, I think you need to see it in the context of young engineering grads.

Firstly, pay is determined by demand & supply, not by how important and world changing engineering skills are. We have been hearing "engineering future is bright" for the last 10 years ever since its hay days in 1990s. Till now, the situation has only gotten worse every year with cheap foreign imports.

And quite honestly, a 6 figure income is nothing to shout at. The important thing is how long & how much hardship one has to endure to get it. An average engineer will need to endure long hours, field work, tough old bird bosses, constant upgrading etc. for 10 - 15 years before there is hope to hit 6 figures.

In contrast, the banking investment sector is going all out to attract engineer grads and often enough offers them 6 figure package as a start! Save for the hardcore passionate techies, most would naturally abandon the field for greener pastures.

Why would anyone go out and slog a decade going nowhere and then make a difficult transition back to finance again? We are not talking about 10% difference in pay here, more like 50% upside on graduation and perhaps 200%-300% difference over long term.

Myaybe there is a vacum for good engineers, but people have been saying that for 10 years and so far nothing has changed. One can't really expect engineers to hang around wasting years of their lives waiting for the good old days to come back.

SMRT might be in need of engineers, but realistically how many can they hire and how much can they pay?


Unregistered 06-01-2012 11:38 AM

>All trades arethe same. Only a handful move to the top.

in some trades, the median income, average income & annual increment are significantly higher than other trades. finance is tops.

>hire and fire

it's a fallacy. once in a while you read in the papers that RBS is retrenching 10,000 worldwide, but do you know that the semicon companies here have already fired more than that quietly?

you said "all trades are the same". in similar vein, i say you risk being fired in all kinds of jobs, and i dare say the risk is in fact LOWER in finance.

Unregistered 06-01-2012 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19469)
Btw, years of engineering had given me ability to foresee a bit of the future. The next wave of 'foreign talents' from India will be entering the financial sectors. From top to bottom, they will be replacing the 'better' paid. And not neglecting the 'foreign' talents from Philippines taking over the service sector of the financial industries. This has already happened in a local bank and many foreign banks based in SGP. Euro debt crisis is bracing to happen in second half of 2012 and spreading its full effect to Asia in 2013. What advices can the many local talented financial experts share?
Print more money? That depreciates the wealth of a nation. Example is US of A. They have dug a hole so big only another war can save them.
Blames merry go round? Ostrich mentality. Example is EU. After a year, the debt had grown and spread.
The only solution left is writing off the debts, resulting in some major banks to collapse and let another crisis to reset the world back to equilibrium.
A financial expert will understand what I will do in the second half of 2012 and whole of 2013.

My friend, is the above foresight reason enough for investment banks to pay me 7 figures since I will be raking back billions for them?

Unfortunately for me, I decided to use my hands to build a real useful world instead of plotting for another disaster to happen.
And a 6 figure salary is really more than enough for me. In my perspective, I feel my lifestyle now rather extravagant and luxurious.

And this is the very reason why I call my fellow engineers 'Gods'.
Sorry, I neglected my humility.
And plz don't put down bangalas. They contributed more to nation building than a lot of locals.

pls see
Sinkie NUS Engineering Honour Grad reduced to scavengering in rubbish to survive - AsiaOne Forum.

Your God is earng ZERO figures for 5 years alreay

Unregistered 06-01-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19481)

Somebody should tell that scavenger to go drive a taxi. In all honesty, it's way better than sifting through trash.

Unregistered 06-01-2012 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19469)
I have to say I disagreed with you. You are only able to see near future but neglected the long term welfare of a nation.

Would you rather have your infrastructures built by engineers whose ability is doubtful?
Are you prepared to accept the consequences of your house collapsing, your electronics exploding in your face etc.?

With all due respect, I am more interested in paying off my mortgage & bills than some nebulous “long term welfare of a nation” concept. My nation will not offer to help me pay my bills when I’m down. The fact that you need to resort to political polemics & emotive language of this sort reflects the lack of concrete evidence to support your cheerleading of the engineering field.

Quote:

6 figures salary is in fact nothing in SGP. This I agree with you. But at late 30s, I am very sure I am at least on top of 80% of financial graduates of the same age.
I have serious doubts on your assertion. 6 figure salary (I assume you are referring to100k to 200k range) is usually a AVP or junior VP in a banking/investment firm. Most people at this level are more like in their late 20s or early 30s, so they are likely to be earning higher than you by the time they reach your age.

Quote:

You kept emphasizing that financial industry is prepared to offer 6 figure for engineers to join them. But you never explain why.
Every year, thousands of students graduated for financial industries to pick. Why the hell are they prepared to pay good money to engineering graduates, who know nuts about financial world? And that is why I mentioned that transition to other industry will never pose a problem for engineers.
First of all, I have no doubt you are very experienced in the engineering field, but you seriously need to have a better understanding of the banking/investment industry needs before pontificating on things you have little knowledge of. Generally, engineers are very much preferred because of their rational & sequential thinking as well as their ability to conceptualize complicated models in Math. This has nothing to do with whether you learn anything about Finance in school, Finance graduates enjoy very little advantage compared to an engineering grad if you ask me.

In fact, certain Finance majors like accounting are shun on because of the perception that they are too rigid and unable to visualize the numbers as it relates to the deal. I’m probably not explaining myself very well here, but engineers who have made the switch can probably help out.

Quote:

What you never share here is that financial sector is a hire and fire industry. And luck plays a very big part in your career. And the office politics involved in moving up.
The very few good players, will probably have the best of the world during boom time. What about the many thousands who can't make it? Clerks? Admin? Or the many vice presidents who try to sell some financial products to the poor engineers?
Most sectors are hire and fire. Like above poster mention, the semicon industry fires far more people than Finance. I was from an industrial engineering firm, they practically laid off 70% of the project team in 2003 because the contracts weren’t coming in. Many of my friends from manufacturing side got laid off when their factories relocated. The service industry is another one that hire/fire is a daily affair also.

Quote:

Btw, years of engineering had given me ability to foresee a bit of the future. The next wave of 'foreign talents' from India will be entering the financial sectors. From top to bottom, they will be replacing the 'better' paid. And not neglecting the 'foreign' talents from Philippines taking over the service sector of the financial industries. This has already happened in a local bank and many foreign banks based in SGP. Euro debt crisis is bracing to happen in second half of 2012 and spreading its full effect to Asia in 2013. What advices can the many local talented financial experts share?
Print more money? That depreciates the wealth of a nation. Example is US of A. They have dug a hole so big only another war can save them.
Blames merry go round? Ostrich mentality. Example is EU. After a year, the debt had grown and spread.
The only solution left is writing off the debts, resulting in some major banks to collapse and let another crisis to reset the world back to equilibrium.
A financial expert will understand what I will do in the second half of 2012 and whole of 2013.

My friend, is the above foresight reason enough for investment banks to pay me 7 figures since I will be raking back billions for them?
First off, what you have stated are pretty standard facts that anyone who reads the newspaper occasionally will know, calling that your ability to forecast the future as a result of your engineering skills is carrying things too far.

Indian and Pinoy FTs taking over service jobs? Euro debt crisis coming and Asia will be affected? Seriously are you for real? This is considered engineer foresight? I think my bochap housewife mum reached the same conclusion as you did 6 months ago.

Quote:

Unfortunately for me, I decided to use my hands to build a real useful world instead of plotting for another disaster to happen.
And a 6 figure salary is really more than enough for me. In my perspective, I feel my lifestyle now rather extravagant and luxurious.
No issues with that, you stick with what you believe & I acknowledge that, all I’m trying to say is that most of us “other engineers” do have more earthly considerations to take care of and being “useful” in this world for “greater good of nation” is not high on our agenda.

Unregistered 06-01-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 19490)
With all due respect, I am more interested in paying off my mortgage & bills than some nebulous “long term welfare of a nation” concept. My nation will not offer to help me pay my bills when I’m down. The fact that you need to resort to political polemics & emotive language of this sort reflects the lack of concrete evidence to support your cheerleading of the engineering field.



I have serious doubts on your assertion. 6 figure salary (I assume you are referring to100k to 200k range) is usually a AVP or junior VP in a banking/investment firm. Most people at this level are more like in their late 20s or early 30s, so they are likely to be earning higher than you by the time they reach your age.



First of all, I have no doubt you are very experienced in the engineering field, but you seriously need to have a better understanding of the banking/investment industry needs before pontificating on things you have little knowledge of. Generally, engineers are very much preferred because of their rational & sequential thinking as well as their ability to conceptualize complicated models in Math. This has nothing to do with whether you learn anything about Finance in school, Finance graduates enjoy very little advantage compared to an engineering grad if you ask me.

In fact, certain Finance majors like accounting are shun on because of the perception that they are too rigid and unable to visualize the numbers as it relates to the deal. I’m probably not explaining myself very well here, but engineers who have made the switch can probably help out.



Most sectors are hire and fire. Like above poster mention, the semicon industry fires far more people than Finance. I was from an industrial engineering firm, they practically laid off 70% of the project team in 2003 because the contracts weren’t coming in. Many of my friends from manufacturing side got laid off when their factories relocated. The service industry is another one that hire/fire is a daily affair also.



First off, what you have stated are pretty standard facts that anyone who reads the newspaper occasionally will know, calling that your ability to forecast the future as a result of your engineering skills is carrying things too far.

Indian and Pinoy FTs taking over service jobs? Euro debt crisis coming and Asia will be affected? Seriously are you for real? This is considered engineer foresight? I think my bochap housewife mum reached the same conclusion as you did 6 months ago.



No issues with that, you stick with what you believe & I acknowledge that, all I’m trying to say is that most of us “other engineers” do have more earthly considerations to take care of and being “useful” in this world for “greater good of nation” is not high on our agenda.

You guys can really write well. Awesome!

Unregistered 07-01-2012 09:39 AM

Any advice for a undergrad who's graduating in 5 mths time?
 
I am studying EEE(Infocomm), and I am planning to go to telecomms/IT industry, but I heard that it's very hard to get a position nowadays.

Applied for DSTA and some other small companies that need web design, currently no reply yet. Apparently the telcos are not looking for engineers yet(I think they outsource to other countries, eg Starhub outsources to Huawei, i know cos worked in starhub b4 as an intern.
I think the telcos only hire experienced, not entry grad.

I would like to know the prospects for this industry. What kind of companies from this industry can I choose from the public and the private sector?

Unregistered 07-01-2012 09:50 AM

giving more info myself:
for a 2nd lower honours sinkie will it be difficult to compete with abnn getting a job in this industry?


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