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How much are you earning per annum?

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  #4891 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2014, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You are doing okay. As long as you do not manise, do not smoke or drink and make sure to save your money properly, you will do very well in the future. Buy a HDB and slowly upgrade to a condo, and later during retirement you can exercise in your condo gym and later downgrade to a HDB again in the up-and-coming Jurong region and live happily ever after. But remember these words- Do not manise!!
You guys should go back to condosingapore, quite sick and tired already hearing that Condo inspiration again and again. After condosingapore return, please spread your idea there.

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  #4892 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2014, 10:46 AM
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What is manise? "Speak some proper English FFS

"Manising
To do man related things
f**k off bitch, I'm manising."

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Manising

"manise - The Ojibwe People's Dictionary
ojibwe.lib.umn.edu/main.../manise-vai
University of Minnesota Libraries
animate intransitive verb vai. es. Listen. s/he harvests, cuts firewood ;. nimanise 1s ind; manise 3s ind; manised 3s conj; menised 3s ch-conj; Stem: /manise-/.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You are doing okay. As long as you do not manise, do not smoke or drink and make sure to save your money properly, you will do very well in the future. Buy a HDB and slowly upgrade to a condo, and later during retirement you can exercise in your condo gym and later downgrade to a HDB again in the up-and-coming Jurong region and live happily ever after. But remember these words- Do not manise!!


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  #4893 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2014, 11:38 AM
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Default wealth or health?

Recently over tea, my colleague was proudly showing off his medical check-up results saying that he was free of any sickness. This sparked off a light hearted debate among us on the issue of whether wealth or health is more important.

We all agreed both wealth and health are important to living well, but which between the two was more important.

Those who said health was more important gave the following argument:
1. With good health, you can get wealth (able to work, no need to spend on medical)
2. With good health, you will be happier

Those who said wealth was more important gave these argument:
1. You can afford good medical care
2. You can retire as and when you like
3. You have more options in life
4. You can pass on your wealth but not your health!

What caught my attention was the last argument that you could pass on your wealth to your loved ones rather than your health.

I found this argument very relevant and persuasive given that no one can really guarantee how long they will live. Just look at the poor passengers that perished in the MH17 flight. I believe many if not all of them were in good health, but that is all not important now. What would be important would be that they leave behind sufficient savings to their loved ones.

So in this respect, I will say that while both health and wealth are important, I will vote for wealth to be more important than health!

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  #4894 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Recently over tea, my colleague was proudly showing off his medical check-up results saying that he was free of any sickness. This sparked off a light hearted debate among us on the issue of whether wealth or health is more important.

We all agreed both wealth and health are important to living well, but which between the two was more important.

Those who said health was more important gave the following argument:
1. With good health, you can get wealth (able to work, no need to spend on medical)
2. With good health, you will be happier

Those who said wealth was more important gave these argument:
1. You can afford good medical care
2. You can retire as and when you like
3. You have more options in life
4. You can pass on your wealth but not your health!

What caught my attention was the last argument that you could pass on your wealth to your loved ones rather than your health.

I found this argument very relevant and persuasive given that no one can really guarantee how long they will live. Just look at the poor passengers that perished in the MH17 flight. I believe many if not all of them were in good health, but that is all not important now. What would be important would be that they leave behind sufficient savings to their loved ones.

So in this respect, I will say that while both health and wealth are important, I will vote for wealth to be more important than health!
You can only pass your limited wealth to your loved ones, but you can teach everybody to learn how to be happy and heathy, be an example to them how to live healthy and happy.
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  #4895 (permalink)  
Old 20-07-2014, 12:23 PM
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Middle income working professionals couple, 46 & 48 yo. Makes about $270k pa in total. Spends $170k pa and saves $100k pa. We bought a new condo two years ago at an affordable price of $2m. We drive a simple 2L European car. We have 3 kids. We employ a maid to take care of our household chores. Life is simple. We only go for holidays once a year in the Dec period, spends about $20k per trip.

We are happy and contented as a middle income Singaporean family. Life is good in Singapore if you study and work hard. We came from low income families and now we have upgraded to be a middle income family.
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  #4896 (permalink)  
Old 20-07-2014, 05:40 PM
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passing by here, I want to share my few words. There are all sort of people on this forum - poor (but not too poor since you can afford internet), mid class and rich (but not too rich since the rich don't have time to come and post regularly on this forum).

First of all, I want to talk about equality.

There is no way in any democratic market society, that all people are equal. This means that there are haves and have nots. There is no way around it. Those who have usually have it becuase of hard work (studied hard or worked hard), skill and luck (including luck at work and promotions or in business - even facebook founders are in a large sense, lucky - ask him to start of scratch again and see if he can do it one more time). So unless we want to become communists (and even communists are unequal), there will always be inequality.

Second, I want to talk about getting on the right side of equality.

Since we are unequal, how to we get on the right side (the have side, not the have not side)? Hard work, luck and skill, as mentioned above. Know that Singapore is so small that it is a zero sum game. Because everything is relative, if you fall below the average, you will feel poor and frustrated. Hence you can have a car today but it is a different exclusivity from having a car in the 60s. So study hard and work hard, and try to be at the right place at the right time. The government is a way has tried to make studying hard pay rewards (like good paying jobs in the civil service). What you can't teach is skill - meaning the the character of a person - some people make good marketers, others make good doctors or lawyers or engineers - you need to be in your area of skill in order to be on the right side.

Third I want to mention challenges.

Life in Singapore and the world is only going to be harder. If you look at the world's population - India, Indonesia, Africa is exploding. Even Malaysia's population is exploding. And the fear is that everyone will want more and eat more - people will want to consume more, and they want fish and beef, not veggies. All resources will start to become scarce and more expensive. This will result in more opportunities for work, but more importantly, massive inflation. For those on the wrong side, they will slip further to the wrong side, unable to drag themselves to the right side as everything gets more and more expensive. Some clever people mention putting into S&P index or properties - these barely return more than inflation, maybe less. Forget about fixed deposits and sovereign bonds returns.

Fourth, I mention my ideas.

For the younger set of people, obviously, you need to study hard. That is the best thing you can do for yourself. Know that in China, millions of hardworking kids even from Beijing U, Fudan, do not get better jobs than those grads in NUS/NTU/SMU. So thank the government for (so far) ensuring that first class honours grads are in demand. Be on the right side.

For those in their 20s-40s, you are either on the right side through previous hard work, so continue on; or you're on the wrong side. If you're on the wrong side, you need to either work harder (by now, there is less you can do - working hard often doesn't reap much rewards, when you are in a long queue of promotions and your boss is creating the traffic jam and not promoted), or be lucky (you can't control this), or take more risk.

So what is taking more risk? It is getting out of the comfort zone. It means leaving Singapore or leaving your job to start a business. Being entrepreneural. You can get on the right side by working in Myanmar or Laos or Vietnam (vietname is already crowded), or even Africa (not congo or sudan!), but assisting in trade. Singapore is a great trading hub, and you are blessed with English and Chinese (assuming you're chinese) speaking ability.

For those in their 50s and above, there is little you can do to increase your income. It is already too late if you are slipping into the wrong side, or are already in the wrong side. The truth is that the slide will only accelerate with time, unless you are generating income, or the government provides payouts.

The world is unfair, but there are things that one can control. Those who refuse to work hard, study hard, find their luck, focus on their skills, and take more risk, will have a hard time in this new age. This is the truth and no change in government will change that.

That's all!
Jeff
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  #4897 (permalink)  
Old 20-07-2014, 05:42 PM
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I realised I made plenty of typos and grammar errors in previous post, apologies! I didn't re-read what I wrote.

Jeff
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  #4898 (permalink)  
Old 20-07-2014, 06:55 PM
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Default very insightful

nice post jeff, one of the bigger picture guys out there.

mind sharing your background/income?


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  #4899 (permalink)  
Old 21-07-2014, 12:18 PM
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Thanks Jeff for adding some value to this forum, which is otherwise filled with mostly irrelevant, filthy postings by the same people repeatedly. Sian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
passing by here, I want to share my few words. There are all sort of people on this forum - poor (but not too poor since you can afford internet), mid class and rich (but not too rich since the rich don't have time to come and post regularly on this forum).

First of all, I want to talk about equality.

There is no way in any democratic market society, that all people are equal. This means that there are haves and have nots. There is no way around it. Those who have usually have it becuase of hard work (studied hard or worked hard), skill and luck (including luck at work and promotions or in business - even facebook founders are in a large sense, lucky - ask him to start of scratch again and see if he can do it one more time). So unless we want to become communists (and even communists are unequal), there will always be inequality.

Second, I want to talk about getting on the right side of equality.

Since we are unequal, how to we get on the right side (the have side, not the have not side)? Hard work, luck and skill, as mentioned above. Know that Singapore is so small that it is a zero sum game. Because everything is relative, if you fall below the average, you will feel poor and frustrated. Hence you can have a car today but it is a different exclusivity from having a car in the 60s. So study hard and work hard, and try to be at the right place at the right time. The government is a way has tried to make studying hard pay rewards (like good paying jobs in the civil service). What you can't teach is skill - meaning the the character of a person - some people make good marketers, others make good doctors or lawyers or engineers - you need to be in your area of skill in order to be on the right side.

Third I want to mention challenges.

Life in Singapore and the world is only going to be harder. If you look at the world's population - India, Indonesia, Africa is exploding. Even Malaysia's population is exploding. And the fear is that everyone will want more and eat more - people will want to consume more, and they want fish and beef, not veggies. All resources will start to become scarce and more expensive. This will result in more opportunities for work, but more importantly, massive inflation. For those on the wrong side, they will slip further to the wrong side, unable to drag themselves to the right side as everything gets more and more expensive. Some clever people mention putting into S&P index or properties - these barely return more than inflation, maybe less. Forget about fixed deposits and sovereign bonds returns.

Fourth, I mention my ideas.

For the younger set of people, obviously, you need to study hard. That is the best thing you can do for yourself. Know that in China, millions of hardworking kids even from Beijing U, Fudan, do not get better jobs than those grads in NUS/NTU/SMU. So thank the government for (so far) ensuring that first class honours grads are in demand. Be on the right side.

For those in their 20s-40s, you are either on the right side through previous hard work, so continue on; or you're on the wrong side. If you're on the wrong side, you need to either work harder (by now, there is less you can do - working hard often doesn't reap much rewards, when you are in a long queue of promotions and your boss is creating the traffic jam and not promoted), or be lucky (you can't control this), or take more risk.

So what is taking more risk? It is getting out of the comfort zone. It means leaving Singapore or leaving your job to start a business. Being entrepreneural. You can get on the right side by working in Myanmar or Laos or Vietnam (vietname is already crowded), or even Africa (not congo or sudan!), but assisting in trade. Singapore is a great trading hub, and you are blessed with English and Chinese (assuming you're chinese) speaking ability.

For those in their 50s and above, there is little you can do to increase your income. It is already too late if you are slipping into the wrong side, or are already in the wrong side. The truth is that the slide will only accelerate with time, unless you are generating income, or the government provides payouts.

The world is unfair, but there are things that one can control. Those who refuse to work hard, study hard, find their luck, focus on their skills, and take more risk, will have a hard time in this new age. This is the truth and no change in government will change that.

That's all!
Jeff
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  #4900 (permalink)  
Old 21-07-2014, 09:18 PM
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Jeff, you made good points. I want to share with you and the rest of the forummers here to fully appreciate the meaning of gratitude.

As a couple, even though we are already in our late 40s, we only earn a total salary of $155k pa. Even though our income is so much lesser than people we know, we are grateful with what we earn. There are people we know who live the high life and they live in big landed homes while we are contented with our suburban condo. However we are not so impressed with their achievements as these people back stab others and plot against others' downfall. They cause people to be kicked out of their livelihood.

Our salaries are lower but we know we make an honest living and we do not sabotage others. Our conscience are clear.

While others have net worth of $10m or more, ours is only $2.4m, including our home. We are happy and we hope to retire when we hit 65.
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