How much are you earning per annum?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Because the bulk of the supply is replacement supply, which means there will be replacement demand from those who scrapped their cars. The car population only increase marginally by 0.25%. On top of replacement demand, there will also be new additional demand by new buyers who are richer and more successful. Flipping of BTO flats also allows people to cash out and use the cash to pay for their new car's downpayment. New cars are luxury goods and is a status symbol.

U car salesman huh? Get lost lah

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Incredibly, it appears that owning a car seems to be less of a status symbol but more a necessity. Like if you sleep in air conditioned room everyday, you can't sleep in a non-air-conditioned room no matter how much it costs.

Today, we have accumulated one landed, one river valley condo, one industrial property. I sold off one condo and used the money to literarily burn cash by buying a Porsche. Really, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but, ahem, I did it because I can, no other reason. Its painful to think how much I am spending on the car, but then again, I can afford it and its still cheaper than 50% tax I would pay in UK or Amsterdam for example.

Oh yeah, and yesterday the moon was squarish and greenish too....
Did you see it?

Sales must be really poor. The guys are hallucinating.

I am just about expecting someone to claim that he is Jim Rogers soon LOL

You have indeed done well. Just to point out that you are not in the top 20% but in the top 10% since you own both a condo and a car. These are the two big Cs of the Singapore dream. 80% live in public housing and you are among the top lucky few to live in private housing.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When we both looked back at where we came from, my wife and I feel so blessed to achieve what we have today. Both of us came from low middle income family. We lived a very humble and frugal life. We both worked hard in our studies and did well to be in top schools. Eventually we both climbed the social ladder achieving success which we thought were impossible.

We started staying in a HDB flat and eventually upgraded to a condo. Today we live in a modern condo with full facilities. We can also afford to buy a car for the convenience of my family. Our household income is currently $180k pa and we earn enough to service our mortgage and car loans comfortably. We were born in a family in the bottom 30% and now at the age of 43 and 46, we are now in the top 20% percent, given our ownership of a condo and a car. We are indeed happy and grateful for our success.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh yeah, and yesterday the moon was squarish and greenish too....
Did you see it?

Sales must be really poor. The guys are hallucinating.

I am just about expecting someone to claim that he is Jim Rogers soon LOL

I am Jim Rogers.

48, $6500 pm
Wife, 49, $8000 pm
Home is a HDB flat worth $650k, paid up.
Car, 2 year old, paid up.

We plan to sell our flat first and once sold, we will buy a resale 3 bedroom condo (below 5 years old) costing the most $1.2m. We will use the sales proceeds of selling our flat plus $350k of our CPF and cash savings to pay $1m ($650k+$350k=$1m) and take a mortgage loan of $200k. We will use our CPF to pay for the monthly payments, which is not that much, relative to our income.

We hope to enjoy an upgrade in our lifestyle and social status after moving to a condo.

me:44yrs
wife :39yrs
kids :3 , 11 yrs, 7 yrs, 9months

own : 2 condo ( 1 fully pay and another $600k left to service )
Present est value for both : $3.7M

Car : 2 . vw

Combine income : $450k
Passive : $15k monthly.

stocks option : $300k

Originally Posted by Unregistered

me:44yrs
wife :39yrs
kids :3 , 11 yrs, 7 yrs, 9months

own : 2 condo ( 1 fully pay and another $600k left to service )
Present est value for both : $3.7M

Car : 2 . vw

Combine income : $450k
Passive : $15k monthly.

stocks option : $300k

You are rich. Do you plan to buy a bungalow soon? You can sell both your condos to pay for the downpayment of a bungalow.

Here you used the comparative or subjective way of defining who is rich. You called that guy with combined household networth of $3.7M rich, obviously because you have much less than $3.7m.

The $3.7M guy may not think he is rich, because he would know some people who have lots more than him, like his bosses or seniors for example. The subjective way of defining who is rich is, well, very subjective and thus is quite meaningless. You already know the uselessness of this because you deliberately suggested that he upgrade to a bungalow where his $3.7M is only adequate to cover the down payment!

This is why I prefer to use the quantitative or objective way of defining who is rich. And I think the defining line is $10M. Why $10M? $10M because it is a figure that will really sets apart the truly rich from the masses. The average household networth has been increasing (although not evenly spread) over the years, and the average HDB 4 room household would have a minimum of $1M including the flat. Those staying in condos would have easily $2M to $5M in household networth. And not forgetting Singapore has the highest concentration of millionaires in the world. A person with just a $1M networth knows he is not rich because this amount doesn't last long and cannot buy him much here.

It is much like owning a car nowadays is no longer a status symbol because so many people and families have one. So be careful when you call someone rich. It will only reveal that you have less than that person.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You are rich. Do you plan to buy a bungalow soon? You can sell both your condos to pay for the downpayment of a bungalow.

Actually $10m combined net worth is nothing if you want to be defined as rich. The really rich ones are those who live in paid up $20m bungalows and with spare change to invest and spend as they wish. You need to have a net worth of at least $100m per person to be said as really rich. But of course if you compare to a billionaire, this guy is nothing. Don't be fooled by the material world.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Here you used the comparative or subjective way of defining who is rich. You called that guy with combined household networth of $3.7M rich, obviously because you have much less than $3.7m.

The $3.7M guy may not think he is rich, because he would know some people who have lots more than him, like his bosses or seniors for example. The subjective way of defining who is rich is, well, very subjective and thus is quite meaningless. You already know the uselessness of this because you deliberately suggested that he upgrade to a bungalow where his $3.7M is only adequate to cover the down payment!

This is why I prefer to use the quantitative or objective way of defining who is rich. And I think the defining line is $10M. Why $10M? $10M because it is a figure that will really sets apart the truly rich from the masses. The average household networth has been increasing (although not evenly spread) over the years, and the average HDB 4 room household would have a minimum of $1M including the flat. Those staying in condos would have easily $2M to $5M in household networth. And not forgetting Singapore has the highest concentration of millionaires in the world. A person with just a $1M networth knows he is not rich because this amount doesn't last long and cannot buy him much here.

It is much like owning a car nowadays is no longer a status symbol because so many people and families have one. So be careful when you call someone rich. It will only reveal that you have less than that person.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually $10m combined net worth is nothing if you want to be defined as rich. The really rich ones are those who live in paid up $20m bungalows and with spare change to invest and spend as they wish. You need to have a net worth of at least $100m per person to be said as really rich. But of course if you compare to a billionaire, this guy is nothing. Don't be fooled by the material world.

Why talk some thing that is beyond your reach?
Just talk about how middle income should have and what type of lifestyle they should enjoy!

Middle class in Singapore should :-

1. Able to buy 5 room HDB....
2. Able to raise 2 children without second taught....
3. Able to send their children for self enrichment classes and private tuition without causing a dent in their financial....
4. Able to buy a Japanese car without paying serious consideration to COE....
5. Able to have family trips every school holidays in Malaysia, including resorts in Sabah and Sarawak for 4 pax....
6. Able to give financial assistance to the aged parents (if needed) or token pocket money 6k a year, plus New Year/ Christmas gift......
7. Able to spend one sunday evening and dinner together at least once a month.......
8. Able to save up to 18% of their pay (in current year) in addition to CPF contribution for next 35 years to achieve equivalent of 10 years last drawn salary....
9. Able to enjoy 70% replacement income when they retire (with HDB flat paid up)....

So, how much do you think Middle Income should be?
120k a year? 150k a year? or 200k a year to see you should life a middle class lifestyle......