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How much are you earning per annum?

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  #2401 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman1 View Post
Since he is not polite with his response, why should I bother to be civilised???

Where did you see me say he is stupid to buy a property for investment when the market is down?

All I am saying is there are a lot of property owners up there sitting on paper profits so they think they are worth millions. Is this not a mirage?

Everyone should do a reality check, you are not worth the millions you think you are, until the point when your properties are sold to the next sucker and cash is in your hands. But first of all, you must find that sucker!

This is not being sour grapes, this is a fact, the irrational bullishness and misplaced optimism that silly-poreans hold on the property front is the biggest risk yet to the property market as a whole.

The current situation is akin to a musical chair, I buy a house at "x" price, I dont care if the price is too high, I am confident the market would keep going up, there would be another person who would come along to buy my house at even higher prices so I can make a tidy profit. It wont go wrong....but we all know the music must stop at some point
so when do you think the music will stop?

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  #2402 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 12:21 AM
dives
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MArkets go up and markets go down and thats hows things been working since the dawn of time.

Property is the bedrock of Singapore and the government will always be there to prevent things from going to far (50% of the population rely on their inflated HDB prices to stay happy, I really don't think the govt wants to piss them off in lieu of recent unhappiness we are seeing), rest assured if things go down as badly as the US everything in Singapore will go to the toilet. Even our job will be at stake.

I am not saying there will not be a correction of some sort but I doubt anything like 97 will occur given how strong we have become financially since then.

Your analogies only apply for those who do not have holding power and are already vested in something that’s over inflated. This likely does not apply to the first poster since he bought in a down markets

I too own a property which I bought for 500K and now being valued at 850K (Commercial), I get Gross 3K a month rental for this which is about 2K nett. That's almost 5% per annum on my original investment. Given the rental returns on commercial now is about 3% now the 850K valuation is about right (I got ready buyers too). However I choose not to sell as I like a steady cashflow stream.

Of course things may not stay rosy forever but I have holding power so its not a concerns of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman1 View Post
Since he is not polite with his response, why should I bother to be civilised???

Where did you see me say he is stupid to buy a property for investment when the market is down?

All I am saying is there are a lot of property owners up there sitting on paper profits so they think they are worth millions. Is this not a mirage?

Everyone should do a reality check, you are not worth the millions you think you are, until the point when your properties are sold to the next sucker and cash is in your hands. But first of all, you must find that sucker!

This is not being sour grapes, this is a fact, the irrational bullishness and misplaced optimism that silly-poreans hold on the property front is the biggest risk yet to the property market as a whole.

The current situation is akin to a musical chair, I buy a house at "x" price, I dont care if the price is too high, I am confident the market would keep going up, there would be another person who would come along to buy my house at even higher prices so I can make a tidy profit. It wont go wrong....but we all know the music must stop at some point


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  #2403 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 08:37 AM
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Talking about property, my hubby and I were skeptical about buying our first property back in 1985 as we believed strongly then that prices will fall further following the 1985 recession. Back then, the social mood was very sombre and it felt like the end of the world for many families. However, we are lucky to have a strong and good government that turns things around. We saw the improvement in the economy and quickly bought our terrace house and never looked back since. The value of the terrace today is 10 times what we bought for.

In 2009, when the crisis hit us we saw that as a big opportunity as we know our government will turn things around because we have lots of reserves, and we bought a condominium unit, paying in full cash. True enough the unit appreciated in value and now it is worth 50% more than what we paid for. We are now retired and enjoy the rentals from this unit.

You will not get wrong in Singapore property. The government will not crash the market but just ensure prices do not rise too fast. Now is in fact a good time to buy because prices has slowed down in appreciation.

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  #2404 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Talking about property, my hubby and I were skeptical about buying our first property back in 1985 as we believed strongly then that prices will fall further following the 1985 recession. Back then, the social mood was very sombre and it felt like the end of the world for many families. However, we are lucky to have a strong and good government that turns things around. We saw the improvement in the economy and quickly bought our terrace house and never looked back since. The value of the terrace today is 10 times what we bought for.

In 2009, when the crisis hit us we saw that as a big opportunity as we know our government will turn things around because we have lots of reserves, and we bought a condominium unit, paying in full cash. True enough the unit appreciated in value and now it is worth 50% more than what we paid for. We are now retired and enjoy the rentals from this unit.

You will not get wrong in Singapore property. The government will not crash the market but just ensure prices do not rise too fast. Now is in fact a good time to buy because prices has slowed down in appreciation.
Government, government and government....you better make sure it is true that your dear gahmen really have unlimited reserves to prop up the property market indefinitely.....and they are willing to do so...
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  #2405 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman1 View Post
Government, government and government....you better make sure it is true that your dear gahmen really have unlimited reserves to prop up the property market indefinitely.....and they are willing to do so...
Sure they do have the reserves. Just look at the reserves per person, it is the highest in the world. While many governments have lots of net debt, we have lots of net assets. We even need to invest these assets. They are willing and able to boost the economy when the need arises. During the 2009 recession, the government used the reserves temporarily to boost the economy and they can easily do it again when necessary. So don't worry, if prices do fall a lot, the government can just remove the 7 cooling measures and prices will move up again instantly.
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  #2406 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 02:00 PM
dives
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Firstly congrats on you and your other for taking the plunge in 85, it has rewarded you greatly and I believe the terrace house brought benefits to your family as well.

I cannot wholeheartedly say that now is the best time to buy to be honest, the prices now in the market are pretty steep and do you see much room for more appreciation? Unless you are buying for self-stay I would caution you to be very wary if you are going to invest in this market at this point in time.

It’s hard to fathom if you not lost money on property before but speak to those burnt by the 97 crash and learn from their wisdom (better than learning the hard way). I too believe the government will prevent a huge crash but we should be responsible for our own investments. This period with sky high prices and government cooling measures which robs you of your profit is probably the worse time to look for more property investments (In SG anyway).

For example look at the below chart, you can see many government cooling measures before the 97 crash, if this is a reminisce of that why not wait till after prices come down and cooling measures are reversed before going in? Imagine you have to hold for 4 years with current stamp measures to make any gain which at current pricing is at most 20%? Be better to forego that and the risk of it not happening and make a surer bet if we do hit a down cycle. Don’t throw everything you worked hard for because of a gamble.

Moneytalk: Property crash of 1996


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Talking about property, my hubby and I were skeptical about buying our first property back in 1985 as we believed strongly then that prices will fall further following the 1985 recession. Back then, the social mood was very sombre and it felt like the end of the world for many families. However, we are lucky to have a strong and good government that turns things around. We saw the improvement in the economy and quickly bought our terrace house and never looked back since. The value of the terrace today is 10 times what we bought for.

In 2009, when the crisis hit us we saw that as a big opportunity as we know our government will turn things around because we have lots of reserves, and we bought a condominium unit, paying in full cash. True enough the unit appreciated in value and now it is worth 50% more than what we paid for. We are now retired and enjoy the rentals from this unit.

You will not get wrong in Singapore property. The government will not crash the market but just ensure prices do not rise too fast. Now is in fact a good time to buy because prices has slowed down in appreciation.
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  #2407 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dives View Post
Firstly congrats on you and your other for taking the plunge in 85, it has rewarded you greatly and I believe the terrace house brought benefits to your family as well.

I cannot wholeheartedly say that now is the best time to buy to be honest, the prices now in the market are pretty steep and do you see much room for more appreciation? Unless you are buying for self-stay I would caution you to be very wary if you are going to invest in this market at this point in time.

It’s hard to fathom if you not lost money on property before but speak to those burnt by the 97 crash and learn from their wisdom (better than learning the hard way). I too believe the government will prevent a huge crash but we should be responsible for our own investments. This period with sky high prices and government cooling measures which robs you of your profit is probably the worse time to look for more property investments (In SG anyway).

For example look at the below chart, you can see many government cooling measures before the 97 crash, if this is a reminisce of that why not wait till after prices come down and cooling measures are reversed before going in? Imagine you have to hold for 4 years with current stamp measures to make any gain which at current pricing is at most 20%? Be better to forego that and the risk of it not happening and make a surer bet if we do hit a down cycle. Don’t throw everything you worked hard for because of a gamble.

Moneytalk: Property crash of 1996
Good advice and thanks for digging this old article up to remind us of the cyclic nature of property. It was not the CM that brought the crash but the Asian crisis.

However, property holds a special place for Asians, if not for many people the world over. It is something that anyone with money will want to acquire. The first home is always special, and when you have spare cash, acquiring a subsequent properties is a logical move.

Unlike other countries, property developments in Singapore are of good quality and land is limited. If you have the ability to hold long term, property investment will not go wrong in Singapore.

The value of money will decrease over time. On top of that big economies are now resorting to printing money to solve their economic problem flooding the world with their cheap money. For those with money where else to protect their wealth than to invest in some assets that can stand the test of time.
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  #2408 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 08:22 PM
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next year will be 55.

Staying in 5 rm HDB (valued at $800K). Passive income as follows:

Currently
1. Condo #1 : $56K pa (gross rental) Condo valued at $1.6M - paid up
2. Condo #2 : $42K pa (gross rental) Condo valued at $1.1M - paid up
3. Dividends : $20K pa Stocks & unit trust valued at $500K

When reached 55, expecting to draw out $17K of interest pa from CPF (at $300K)

When reached 65, expecting another $24K from CPF Annuity Life

Should I retire? No, children still schooling, passive income not stable. Current family expenses more than $100K pa.
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  #2409 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 08:51 PM
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Default Reply: Of The Great Divide (II)

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Originally Posted by if_i_may_say_so View Post
I find it highly offensive that misogynists are making assumptions and hurling groundless accusations.

Let me make myself clear - I find it disconcerting that despite being smarter than my partner, he is earning more than me or my peers who have prestigious scholarships and numerous academic accolades. That is my main gripe.

In no way did I mention that he is of a low IQ. Both of us hail from the same secondary school (ranked within the top 10) and are from the top 3 junior colleges. While he trails me in academics, he holds his own right with a whisker away from having 1st class honours. Both are academic elites to the average man.

Additionally, it is terribly misogynistic to assume that I married him for his money.

He was born into poverty. When we got married, he had just started work and there was very little that his family could have provided us. He had a relatively high starting salary that was the envy of his peers. As mentioned, most of my peers are scholars and/or are from wealthy families. His friends and relatives clearly thought that I was "marrying down". My family paid for almost every expense of our wedding which was held in one of the top hotels. Our photography alone was a 5-figure sum, paid for by myself, after slaving hours in order not to depend fully on my family.

I married him because he was a good man. It is as simple as that.

Furthermore, I had rejected his proposal for 4 consecutive years as I felt that I was too young to get married in my early 20s.

I am very proud of my independence. Friends query why I continue to work when I can "shake legs" and enjoy life as a tai-tai. Let it be known that this is not my personality makeup. I have been indoctrinated with firm values of wielding pride and independence. One should not depend on someone else to feed you while your existence is validated by being a mere sloth who simply rots and wastes away by lazing about.

A little insight to my family background would tell you that my mother grew up with 4 servants in the household. The family once had a string of houses (more than 10). That is the kind of background that I have grown up in but my family is not materialistic and sees money as being transient. My uncle gave a large part of his wealth away during his lifetime and thousands of people have benefitted from his philanthropy.

With this in hindsight, I am understandably peeved to be taken for a gold-digger or a materialistic woman.

While I have also mentioned that I earn less than my husband, I did not state that I am earning a meagre salary. My salary is above the median. My comparison is relative, but others have chosen to make inferences when there is none.

I had expected sound reasoning and logical deductions, which some of you have done so, and I deeply appreciate your input.

As for those who have been misguided by your own depraved assumptions of women being incapable of earning or marrying a rich man despite him having a lower IQ, I am glad that you are not within my social circle. Before more assumptions can be made about my character of having peers who are scholars and rich friends, let me put it this way to you. It is easy to bond with others of the same interests and level of intellect. Quite often, such people are from relatively good backgrounds, which hurtles them up the social ladder with connections and such. I am not one who gives a hoot about your background upon meeting you. But because of a similarity in mannerisms, upbringing and shared lingo amongst a certain breed, this has led to a cumulation of friends within this demographic over the years. Take for instance a close friend whom I had known for a decade; he recently divulged that his father is actually the CEO of a billion-dollar organization.

I do not talk shop nor take an interest in the material things which my friends own. We are not interested in talking about the financial market, statistics, property nor cars. Conversations revolve around their personal lives and shared tales. This is the basis of all my friendships and relationships. Whoever they are, what they have or who they are connected to will only be revealed after several years. These friends are humble and do not see a need for ostentatious displays. If you are truly wealthy, you will not need to find every opportunity to boast nor parade what you have, for few will be able to match up in the first place.

Naturally, I am very proud that my husband has managed to throw off the shackles of his humble background and silence the naysayers on his own. However, as mentioned, I find it hard to swallow that being smarter of the two, I am not within the same salary bracket. That is my MAIN gripe.

Despite this, I do not take a single cent from my partner nor family. I firmly advocate buying what you want with the money that you have earned. There is no pride in using other people's money.

As for the vicious remark about the old folks' home, I apologize for refuting your callous statement. If there was an ounce of filial piety within you, it would not be a point of reference, even as a joke. My family is firmly against placing any member in the old folks' home. My grandmother struggled with dementia, was incontinent and prone to random verbal outbursts. For more than a decade, my mother and aunt took it upon themselves to care for her personally. That very aunt has been bedridden shortly after the demise of my grandmother. My mother cares for her now with the help of a domestic helper. Though it is taxing to accompany her for her weekly hospital appointments, hooking her up to machinery at home and having to tend to her every need, it is strongly advocated within my family that we ought to take care of one another. This tradition of caring personally for the family will be my baton. It is one which I will inherit and run the race willingly because of the strong beacons before me that I have witnessed for the past 2 decades.

I apologize for rambling and digressing. I was hoping for a good jostle of the mind with vigorous discussions, but quite unfortunately some are more adept at sweeping statements and bearing malicious thoughts. To those who have managed to voice my thoughts succinctly, thank you for the effort.

Finally, please note that not all ladies are out to bag a rich man nor care to. There are ladies who are intelligent and absolutely independent who can marry a man simply because he is good to her.

He was the poorest of all the male friends. I married him. Our condominium in a prime district did not happen overnight based on our own efforts. I was determined to be without my family's intervention. The Audi coupe and preceding BMW were fruits of my husband's labour. When we were first married, we lived in a flat with a humble Japanese car. In the beginning, I was called foolish by some and a rare gem by others to marry the poorest man within my social circle who was born into poverty. But you cannot deem me as a gold-digger. There was none to begin with! Oh, the sheer indignance I had when my eyes first scanned the scathing replies!

Dear Lady,

I cannot understand your gripe because it seems to me , according to your theory, people should have higher/lower according to their IQ. First of all I would advice you to read some popular books like "outliers" , "freakonomics". It will help to instill you the basic ideas of economics and success in a particular field. Secondly, I strongly feel that IQ is a debatable form of measuring ones intelligence. There are so many factors in life which will shape the outcomes of your action, you can read "butter fly effect" from "chaos theory".

And I still cannot understand why your are unhappy because your husband is earning more because just because your were better in schools. May be you should try examining and improving your emoitional state.

Regards,
Average IQ/EQ man.
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  #2410 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2013, 08:55 AM
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Dear Lady,

I cannot understand your gripe because it seems to me , according to your theory, people should have higher/lower according to their IQ. First of all I would advice you to read some popular books like "outliers" , "freakonomics". It will help to instill you the basic ideas of economics and success in a particular field. Secondly, I strongly feel that IQ is a debatable form of measuring ones intelligence. There are so many factors in life which will shape the outcomes of your action, you can read "butter fly effect" from "chaos theory".

And I still cannot understand why your are unhappy because your husband is earning more because just because your were better in schools. May be you should try examining and improving your emoitional state.

Regards,
Average IQ/EQ man.
Your response an epic fail. Her post does not warrant any response. She already learning that high IQ and good academic results do not equate to knowledge and acumen in how the world works. If she still doesn't understand then she lacks one important ingredient - situation awareness.
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