How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

how i wish this is true.
Firstly, no need talk about private because its your own business. Unless u work for raffles where u are employed.
The salary is actually transparent across all 3 clusters in public. Obviously u are very junior and never get hired across clusters. Still with MOHH ah? when u move between cluster, your new HR will talk to your current HR to find out your salary and not offer u anything higher.
Gone are the days with 5 cluster that you can job hop around and get a 15-20% pay bump.

OP here, yup still with mohh. I think majority of pple in this forum are still junior doctors with mohh, who are concerned Abt their career progress or Remuneration (be it gp land, rp, AC opportunities once residency is completed etc). Ultimately, I think it's only fair and reasonable for us to know given our efforts in our ho/mo/reg years. These things are not very transparent at present. (At least not made known to the junior doctors - ho/mo; reg I not sure)

In fact I actually even think that these info (esp pay progression, job scope, challenges faced for public doctors) should be made to the public, so that parents/jc students applying for medicine would have a guage of their career opportunities/potential Remuneration and compare it to other fields (e.g law/CS/finance etc) before they make a decision on their future.

I have seen many medical students/junior doctors regret doing medicine, due to the suboptimal Remuneration among other reasons as well. It's difficult to blame them as how many 18 years old (when they chose medicine) actually truly know what they want? And they are now stuck with a hefty bond with mohh which they signed at 18-19 years old.

I thought this article is a good read and highlights the practical situation of being a doctor nowadays but I really wonder how many jc students when choosing medicine are aware of this..(link below)

s://.todayonline.com/commentary/want-study-medicine-and-be-doctor-singapore-heres-what-you-need-know-1813681

Originally Posted by Unregistered

OP here, yup still with mohh. I think majority of pple in this forum are still junior doctors with mohh, who are concerned Abt their career progress or Remuneration (be it gp land, rp, AC opportunities once residency is completed etc). Ultimately, I think it's only fair and reasonable for us to know given our efforts in our ho/mo/reg years. These things are not very transparent at present. (At least not made known to the junior doctors - ho/mo; reg I not sure)

In fact I actually even think that these info (esp pay progression, job scope, challenges faced for public doctors) should be made to the public, so that parents/jc students applying for medicine would have a guage of their career opportunities/potential Remuneration and compare it to other fields (e.g law/CS/finance etc) before they make a decision on their future.

I have seen many medical students/junior doctors regret doing medicine, due to the suboptimal Remuneration among other reasons as well. It's difficult to blame them as how many 18 years old (when they chose medicine) actually truly know what they want? And they are now stuck with a hefty bond with mohh which they signed at 18-19 years old.

I thought this article is a good read and highlights the practical situation of being a doctor nowadays but I really wonder how many jc students when choosing medicine are aware of this..(link below)

s://.todayonline.com/commentary/want-study-medicine-and-be-doctor-singapore-heres-what-you-need-know-1813681

how is it not transparent ? you ask any reg and ac their pay and they will tell you. Its about there with a few hundred dollars variation. you use ur eyes to see will know the progression.
you expect to be spoon fed? a career counsellor who sit down and counsel u for hours?

GP land -> hired GP -> gp clinic owner -> chain owner - > minster of manpower
polyclinic - > FP-> SRP -> principal PRP. if mmed -> FP, AC FP, C FP, SC FP
hospital -> RP, SRP -> PRP or AC -> C -> SC- > EC

Mo 4-6K, SR 7-8K, AC 12-14K before allowance. Once you become a hospital / polyclinic staff ( RP, AC etc) your increment is 3-5% per year.

really strawberry generation. lamenting at the choice of career guidance. seriously?! find doctoring regretful due to lack of renumeration? While u can't buy GCB as a doctor anymore, any doctoring job should leave u quite comfortable anywhere.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

not true. Numerous studies have show that ob/gyn on the whole has better outcomes even when delivering normal risk pregnancies which can turn nasty halfway through. The midwife who deliver the baby still do so in the hospital and have a oncall reg / consultant assigned to help them and who still BEARS the medical responsibility and TAKES a financial reward for assuming THAT medical responsibility. The FM obs who settle everything themselves on the whole has worse outcomes.

FM obs exist in countries that are large and where a rural setting of 20000-50000 population cannot support a team of ob/gyn to be profitable and so no choice. Also the rural FM obs will definitely see way more case than the urban FM obs and hence have better outcomes ( but still lose to a true blue Ob/gyn)

Why would the FM in SG be stupid to assume such responsibilities when u are 15 minutes from anywhere. FYI , it cost 30K pa for ob insurance coverage in SG and there is no tail cover. Go google what tail cover means. Worse outcomes , not financial viable so why even chase after it ? Not as if i sit in clinic all day and has no patients to begin with.

Where are your "numerous studies"?
s://.cfp.ca/content/cfp/59/10/e456.full-text.pdf

Originally Posted by Unregistered

not true. Numerous studies have show that ob/gyn on the whole has better outcomes even when delivering normal risk pregnancies which can turn nasty halfway through. The midwife who deliver the baby still do so in the hospital and have a oncall reg / consultant assigned to help them and who still BEARS the medical responsibility and TAKES a financial reward for assuming THAT medical responsibility. The FM obs who settle everything themselves on the whole has worse outcomes.

FM obs exist in countries that are large and where a rural setting of 20000-50000 population cannot support a team of ob/gyn to be profitable and so no choice. Also the rural FM obs will definitely see way more case than the urban FM obs and hence have better outcomes ( but still lose to a true blue Ob/gyn)

Why would the FM in SG be stupid to assume such responsibilities when u are 15 minutes from anywhere. FYI , it cost 30K pa for ob insurance coverage in SG and there is no tail cover. Go google what tail cover means. Worse outcomes , not financial viable so why even chase after it ? Not as if i sit in clinic all day and has no patients to begin with.

What studies?
s://.cfp.ca/content/cfp/59/10/e456.full-text.pdf

Originally Posted by Unregistered

not true. Numerous studies have show that ob/gyn on the whole has better outcomes even when delivering normal risk pregnancies which can turn nasty halfway through. The midwife who deliver the baby still do so in the hospital and have a oncall reg / consultant assigned to help them and who still BEARS the medical responsibility and TAKES a financial reward for assuming THAT medical responsibility. The FM obs who settle everything themselves on the whole has worse outcomes.

FM obs exist in countries that are large and where a rural setting of 20000-50000 population cannot support a team of ob/gyn to be profitable and so no choice. Also the rural FM obs will definitely see way more case than the urban FM obs and hence have better outcomes ( but still lose to a true blue Ob/gyn)

Why would the FM in SG be stupid to assume such responsibilities when u are 15 minutes from anywhere. FYI , it cost 30K pa for ob insurance coverage in SG and there is no tail cover. Go google what tail cover means. Worse outcomes , not financial viable so why even chase after it ? Not as if i sit in clinic all day and has no patients to begin with.

Check out these studies


1. Reid AJ, Grava-Gubins I, Carroll JC. Family physicians in maternity care.
Still in the game? Report from the CFPC’s Janus Project. Can Fam Physician
2000;46:601-11.
2. Buchman S. It’s about time: 3-year FM residency training. Can Fam Physician
2012;58:1045 (Eng), 1046 (Fr).
3. Klein MC, Kelly A, Spence A, Kaczorowski J, Grzybowski S. In for the long
haul. Which family physicians plan to continue delivering babies? Can Fam
Physician 2002;48:1216-22.
4. Kaczorowski J, Levitt C. Intrapartum care by general practitioners and fam-
ily physicians. Provincial trends from 1984-1985 to 1994-1995. Can Fam
Physician 2000;46:587-97.
5. Shapiro JL. Satisfaction with obstetric care. Patient survey in a family prac-
tice shared-call group. Can Fam Physician 1999;45:651-7.
6. Orrantia E, Poole H, Strike J, Zelek B. Evaluation of a novel model for rural
obstetric care. Can J Rural Med 2010;15(1):14-8.
7. Omar MA, Schiffman RF, Bingham CR. Development and testing of the
Patient Expectations and Satisfaction with Prenatal Care instrument. Res Nurs
Health 2001;24(3):218-29.
8. Hoddinott SN, Bass MJ. The Dillman Total Design Survey Method: a sure-fire
way to get high survey return rates. Can Fam Physician 1986;32:2366-8.
9. Nunnally JC. Psychometric theory. 2nd ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill; 1978.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

how is it not transparent ? you ask any reg and ac their pay and they will tell you. Its about there with a few hundred dollars variation. you use ur eyes to see will know the progression.
you expect to be spoon fed? a career counsellor who sit down and counsel u for hours?

GP land -> hired GP -> gp clinic owner -> chain owner - > minster of manpower
polyclinic - > FP-> SRP -> principal PRP. if mmed -> FP, AC FP, C FP, SC FP
hospital -> RP, SRP -> PRP or AC -> C -> SC- > EC

Mo 4-6K, SR 7-8K, AC 12-14K before allowance. Once you become a hospital / polyclinic staff ( RP, AC etc) your increment is 3-5% per year.

really strawberry generation. lamenting at the choice of career guidance. seriously?! find doctoring regretful due to lack of renumeration? While u can't buy GCB as a doctor anymore, any doctoring job should leave u quite comfortable anywhere.

this post is right.

you will never be happy with your pay if u compare with your friends.
there is this thing called hedonic treadmill
my jc classmate is a vp at a bank. earn 1.5x that of me (con).

but i understand her difficulties. bank job less secure, performance dependent.
on the other med is more stable.
if i toe the line, support boss initiative, be safe, dont act clever, then job security is there.

be safe some times mean referring when necessary, for someone more qualified in that field to treat the patient or give an opinion.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

how is it not transparent ? you ask any reg and ac their pay and they will tell you. Its about there with a few hundred dollars variation. you use ur eyes to see will know the progression.
you expect to be spoon fed? a career counsellor who sit down and counsel u for hours?

GP land -> hired GP -> gp clinic owner -> chain owner - > minster of manpower
polyclinic - > FP-> SRP -> principal PRP. if mmed -> FP, AC FP, C FP, SC FP
hospital -> RP, SRP -> PRP or AC -> C -> SC- > EC

Mo 4-6K, SR 7-8K, AC 12-14K before allowance. Once you become a hospital / polyclinic staff ( RP, AC etc) your increment is 3-5% per year.

really strawberry generation. lamenting at the choice of career guidance. seriously?! find doctoring regretful due to lack of renumeration? While u can't buy GCB as a doctor anymore, any doctoring job should leave u quite comfortable anywhere.

Outdated lah.
You never heard of senior service registrar for people who exited? People can be ssr for 1-2 years fighting for AC spots. But this wasn't made known to them when they joined residency 6 years back..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Outdated lah.
You never heard of senior service registrar for people who exited? People can be ssr for 1-2 years fighting for AC spots. But this wasn't made known to them when they joined residency 6 years back..

and your point is?
if u didn't already know, under the commonwealth mode of training, Sg is already one of the earliest place to make AC or equivalent rank.
for eg in UK, an anesthetist training is about 9 years long. They never have a job waiting for them when they come out. Most of them become locum consultant for a few years before getting a substantive consultant job , often in another more rural area.

The situation is worse in Australia; there are simply no consultant jobs. A few years back , i look up the stats for this mind u, there are 25 fully trained cardiothorathic FRCS waiting for a consultant job to come up in 5 of the cardiac surgery center in Australia. For them , its not a matter of doing 1-2 years of SSR.

Anyway, those folks from 10-12 years ago had it easy with the residency system. They can enter straight after med school. If u chiong, u can make AC in 5 years with AIM or GS. I went to emerg surgery with one such GS reg who is a pgy4 and i'm not impressed dude, i am seriously not impressed. He has no effing idea what he was doing. Im not saying i saved his ass, but i really did point out a lot of the things that can possibly go wrong and he was like so dangerously unaware. As my sc from UK said the next morning, he started as surgical basic trainees at PGY6 in the UK and he can't see how a pgy4 can actually have the experience to carry out that role properly.

doing SSR for these guys is already easy on them and safer for patients.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

and your point is?
if u didn't already know, under the commonwealth mode of training, Sg is already one of the earliest place to make AC or equivalent rank.
for eg in UK, an anesthetist training is about 9 years long. They never have a job waiting for them when they come out. Most of them become locum consultant for a few years before getting a substantive consultant job , often in another more rural area.

The situation is worse in Australia; there are simply no consultant jobs. A few years back , i look up the stats for this mind u, there are 25 fully trained cardiothorathic FRCS waiting for a consultant job to come up in 5 of the cardiac surgery center in Australia. For them , its not a matter of doing 1-2 years of SSR.

Anyway, those folks from 10-12 years ago had it easy with the residency system. They can enter straight after med school. If u chiong, u can make AC in 5 years with AIM or GS. I went to emerg surgery with one such GS reg who is a pgy4 and i'm not impressed dude, i am seriously not impressed. He has no effing idea what he was doing. Im not saying i saved his ass, but i really did point out a lot of the things that can possibly go wrong and he was like so dangerously unaware. As my sc from UK said the next morning, he started as surgical basic trainees at PGY6 in the UK and he can't see how a pgy4 can actually have the experience to carry out that role properly.

doing SSR for these guys is already easy on them and safer for patients.

But will that affect pay and career progression which is what most people in this forum are interested in?

Slightly different point but Many junior doctors (including myself I must admit) are all money minded and want work-life balance eventually, and I honestly think the whole covid pandemic exacerbated that. They honestly want to complete their training asap so that they can get out of the system rather than spending time learning their trade (surgery/medicine). The idea of spending 10 years in training to be a better surgeon for e.g just doesn't appeal anymore.

Gone are the days are doctors willing to spend hrs slogging in the hospital. That's unfortunately a fact of the modern society, which is evident by the number of resignation I see during the last 2 years. From your post, it does appear that you are a senior doctor; I bet that you don't see people resigning at pgy2 (i.e 1st year mo) to go CTF locuming during your time as junior doctor right?

I am currently a mopex (with mohh), pgy5 (i.e 4th year mo). I thought of doing IM and have even cleared mrcp, but the pandemic made me rethink my decision.

I feel that public healthcare workers are really shortchanged financially compared to their private counterparts during the covid pandemic. We are paid a lot less and have to do lots of sai Kang. This is from my personal experience in ttsh/ncid posting during the covid peak where doctors from the private sector (e.g raffles hospital) tend to throw a lot of curveballs at us. (E.g they dump all the sickies or pts with social issues back to ttsh via ambulance, often without any proper handover/memo, and we are left to deal with all these pts)

Maybe I am naive/superficial or I am just burnt out, but the covid pandemic make me feel that we are not really paid based on our expertise in medicine. I can't understand how can I be paid less than my junior (pgy2) locuming in CTF? (This is a true account btw, as the person who resigned and left for CTF was my previous ho on call before she completed hoship). I will probably go try out locuming once my bond ends next year or take a break from medicine completely.

U are right on this.

But it is the job of the system to keep cost like u all down. Once u give up, there will be foreign doctors to take over your training.

You can continue to work in CTF or locum.

It is what it is.

With the situation like this, most patients ARE not on the doctors side.
They just want cheap.
But only half the story. Patients eventually suffer from bad medicine and surgery