OP here, yup still with mohh. I think majority of pple in this forum are still junior doctors with mohh, who are concerned Abt their career progress or Remuneration (be it gp land, rp, AC opportunities once residency is completed etc). Ultimately, I think it's only fair and reasonable for us to know given our efforts in our ho/mo/reg years. These things are not very transparent at present. (At least not made known to the junior doctors - ho/mo; reg I not sure)

In fact I actually even think that these info (esp pay progression, job scope, challenges faced for public doctors) should be made to the public, so that parents/jc students applying for medicine would have a guage of their career opportunities/potential Remuneration and compare it to other fields (e.g law/CS/finance etc) before they make a decision on their future.

I have seen many medical students/junior doctors regret doing medicine, due to the suboptimal Remuneration among other reasons as well. It's difficult to blame them as how many 18 years old (when they chose medicine) actually truly know what they want? And they are now stuck with a hefty bond with mohh which they signed at 18-19 years old.

I thought this article is a good read and highlights the practical situation of being a doctor nowadays but I really wonder how many jc students when choosing medicine are aware of this..(link below)

s://.todayonline.com/commentary/want-study-medicine-and-be-doctor-singapore-heres-what-you-need-know-1813681

how is it not transparent ? you ask any reg and ac their pay and they will tell you. Its about there with a few hundred dollars variation. you use ur eyes to see will know the progression.
you expect to be spoon fed? a career counsellor who sit down and counsel u for hours?

GP land -> hired GP -> gp clinic owner -> chain owner - > minster of manpower
polyclinic - > FP-> SRP -> principal PRP. if mmed -> FP, AC FP, C FP, SC FP
hospital -> RP, SRP -> PRP or AC -> C -> SC- > EC

Mo 4-6K, SR 7-8K, AC 12-14K before allowance. Once you become a hospital / polyclinic staff ( RP, AC etc) your increment is 3-5% per year.

really strawberry generation. lamenting at the choice of career guidance. seriously?! find doctoring regretful due to lack of renumeration? While u can't buy GCB as a doctor anymore, any doctoring job should leave u quite comfortable anywhere.

Where are your "numerous studies"?
s://.cfp.ca/content/cfp/59/10/e456.full-text.pdf

What studies?
s://.cfp.ca/content/cfp/59/10/e456.full-text.pdf

Check out these studies


1. Reid AJ, Grava-Gubins I, Carroll JC. Family physicians in maternity care.
Still in the game? Report from the CFPC’s Janus Project. Can Fam Physician
2000;46:601-11.
2. Buchman S. It’s about time: 3-year FM residency training. Can Fam Physician
2012;58:1045 (Eng), 1046 (Fr).
3. Klein MC, Kelly A, Spence A, Kaczorowski J, Grzybowski S. In for the long
haul. Which family physicians plan to continue delivering babies? Can Fam
Physician 2002;48:1216-22.
4. Kaczorowski J, Levitt C. Intrapartum care by general practitioners and fam-
ily physicians. Provincial trends from 1984-1985 to 1994-1995. Can Fam
Physician 2000;46:587-97.
5. Shapiro JL. Satisfaction with obstetric care. Patient survey in a family prac-
tice shared-call group. Can Fam Physician 1999;45:651-7.
6. Orrantia E, Poole H, Strike J, Zelek B. Evaluation of a novel model for rural
obstetric care. Can J Rural Med 2010;15(1):14-8.
7. Omar MA, Schiffman RF, Bingham CR. Development and testing of the
Patient Expectations and Satisfaction with Prenatal Care instrument. Res Nurs
Health 2001;24(3):218-29.
8. Hoddinott SN, Bass MJ. The Dillman Total Design Survey Method: a sure-fire
way to get high survey return rates. Can Fam Physician 1986;32:2366-8.
9. Nunnally JC. Psychometric theory. 2nd ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill; 1978.

this post is right.

you will never be happy with your pay if u compare with your friends.
there is this thing called hedonic treadmill
my jc classmate is a vp at a bank. earn 1.5x that of me (con).

but i understand her difficulties. bank job less secure, performance dependent.
on the other med is more stable.
if i toe the line, support boss initiative, be safe, dont act clever, then job security is there.

be safe some times mean referring when necessary, for someone more qualified in that field to treat the patient or give an opinion.

Outdated lah.
You never heard of senior service registrar for people who exited? People can be ssr for 1-2 years fighting for AC spots. But this wasn't made known to them when they joined residency 6 years back..

and your point is?
if u didn't already know, under the commonwealth mode of training, Sg is already one of the earliest place to make AC or equivalent rank.
for eg in UK, an anesthetist training is about 9 years long. They never have a job waiting for them when they come out. Most of them become locum consultant for a few years before getting a substantive consultant job , often in another more rural area.

The situation is worse in Australia; there are simply no consultant jobs. A few years back , i look up the stats for this mind u, there are 25 fully trained cardiothorathic FRCS waiting for a consultant job to come up in 5 of the cardiac surgery center in Australia. For them , its not a matter of doing 1-2 years of SSR.

Anyway, those folks from 10-12 years ago had it easy with the residency system. They can enter straight after med school. If u chiong, u can make AC in 5 years with AIM or GS. I went to emerg surgery with one such GS reg who is a pgy4 and i'm not impressed dude, i am seriously not impressed. He has no effing idea what he was doing. Im not saying i saved his ass, but i really did point out a lot of the things that can possibly go wrong and he was like so dangerously unaware. As my sc from UK said the next morning, he started as surgical basic trainees at PGY6 in the UK and he can't see how a pgy4 can actually have the experience to carry out that role properly.

doing SSR for these guys is already easy on them and safer for patients.

But will that affect pay and career progression which is what most people in this forum are interested in?

Slightly different point but Many junior doctors (including myself I must admit) are all money minded and want work-life balance eventually, and I honestly think the whole covid pandemic exacerbated that. They honestly want to complete their training asap so that they can get out of the system rather than spending time learning their trade (surgery/medicine). The idea of spending 10 years in training to be a better surgeon for e.g just doesn't appeal anymore.

Gone are the days are doctors willing to spend hrs slogging in the hospital. That's unfortunately a fact of the modern society, which is evident by the number of resignation I see during the last 2 years. From your post, it does appear that you are a senior doctor; I bet that you don't see people resigning at pgy2 (i.e 1st year mo) to go CTF locuming during your time as junior doctor right?

I am currently a mopex (with mohh), pgy5 (i.e 4th year mo). I thought of doing IM and have even cleared mrcp, but the pandemic made me rethink my decision.

I feel that public healthcare workers are really shortchanged financially compared to their private counterparts during the covid pandemic. We are paid a lot less and have to do lots of sai Kang. This is from my personal experience in ttsh/ncid posting during the covid peak where doctors from the private sector (e.g raffles hospital) tend to throw a lot of curveballs at us. (E.g they dump all the sickies or pts with social issues back to ttsh via ambulance, often without any proper handover/memo, and we are left to deal with all these pts)

Maybe I am naive/superficial or I am just burnt out, but the covid pandemic make me feel that we are not really paid based on our expertise in medicine. I can't understand how can I be paid less than my junior (pgy2) locuming in CTF? (This is a true account btw, as the person who resigned and left for CTF was my previous ho on call before she completed hoship). I will probably go try out locuming once my bond ends next year or take a break from medicine completely.

U are right on this.

But it is the job of the system to keep cost like u all down. Once u give up, there will be foreign doctors to take over your training.

You can continue to work in CTF or locum.

It is what it is.

With the situation like this, most patients ARE not on the doctors side.
They just want cheap.
But only half the story. Patients eventually suffer from bad medicine and surgery

Ai chee ai pee
Patients deserve what they pay for.

The FRACGP and CCFP have a long history of being recognised as specialists in their own right for many decades, and are remunerated fairly similarly to their country hospital specialist counterparts.

They are not equivalent to the SG FM mmed because they are fully qualified to manage a lot more than our local FM mmeds as other posters have alluded to. If you want to be a FP who can practice anywhere in the world and feel confident enough to manage emergency surgical procedures or non-complex antenatal and paediatric care, then you should train for the FRACGP or CCFP and come back to Singapore to practice afterwards and raise the local standards of primary care.

v long history meh.
but wow
Sg m.med already can operate and u mean to say ccfp and fracgp even better?
indeed we should hire these foreign talents.
suggest we shut down local med school and hire these overseas super FM speciliast. 1 can do the job of 10. pay them 5 local fp salary and we already got a bargain. in fact em, GS and obgyn and paeds speciality can shut down liao.

I didnt said i can operate for all
With an mmed fm i had seen several cases of caserian, cervical disc replacement and colectomy.
See 1 , do 1, teach 1
Plus i also learn from videos

Question for drs.
If Dr A see a patient for high blood and diabetes and the patient disease is not control well vs Dr B see same patient and get high blood and diabetes controlled well does Dr B get paid more than Dr A?
Or is all dr paid per consult or visit regardless of outcome for the patient?
I see some dr is like go through motion onli. Heck care attitide. But go outside pay is same. Soemtimes I meet good dr spend time explain good advice go outside pay is same also.

Blood pressure and diabetes is individual responsibility.
If i prescribe meds for u but u dont take.
Spend half hr counselling u , u dont listen

U default appointments.

U chak kwa teow, white rice, kopi, carbo heavy
No exercise. Lazy to do evening or morning walk.
Takes potato chips and high salt diet.

Same as teaching.
Lousy result is the student lazy, dont listen in class. Dont do self study after class.
To blame it on teacher is wrong.

Inot saying blame on teacher.
Good tuition teachers charge more.
Good better dr got chatge more?

I see is like the dr make money is got jim a lot of patient nia. Got any GP is can see leds but charge higher per patient?

tuition teachers charge more by scaling up - group tuition
say 1 tuition jc level ex moe, 200 per hr max.
but if you do group tuition, jc level 80 dollars per students and ten students - $800.

gp no choice - due to confidentiality, so 1 patient at a time

gp dont make more by treating a patient more well controlled -
but gp has the potential to get a repeat visit if he is nice and polite, and patient likes him.

TLDR: be a tuition teacher

Wah lau the gp sound a bit like those social escort sia? 1 at a time. Lol

I think we need to be fair.
The roles of doctors is to serve society.
In those places, country is big hence the local doctors need to do more.
Not justified to over train GP when A and E and hospital is 15 minutes away

But the drs in those countries need to have the same competencies whether or not they end up working in rural area or in big city with ER 15 min away.
You can see why MMed will never be equivalent to FRACGP or CCFP.
But when you see the Sg dont recognize FRACGP and CCFP is just pure jelly onli.

lol or are u the jelly one with a fracgp who just realised coming back to sg u are forever regaled to a rp job ?
pls la. u think the fracgp can do c sec straight after 3 years of training?
need do basic and then advanced diploma in obgyn. and every few years need to attach to maternity department of hospital to log a number of supervised c section.

Currently a 4th year NUS med student who didn’t disrupt army for med school (I had completed my 2 years as an NSF).

Heard that the base pay of a HO now (excluding employer CPF contribution) is 4k.

Have a few questions.

[1] How will my pay differ from other HOs? Does having completed NS mean that you get a few hundred dollars more compared to my female colleagues and guys who didn’t disrupt?
[2] What is the pay jump from HO to PGY2 MO?
[3] What is the annual increment if I don’t get into any residency programme and remain an MO in the public sector?

Thanks!

ho no difference. no bonus also.
mo with NSF get 400 more. nearly 5k in ur case
same increment as u in residency.

And because of gender equality. Once u become sr female and male pay is the same
But male u get to slack off during reservist.

Does anyone here think that ops will be saturated one day just like the hospitals, and that not all fm resident will get a job post residency?
It seems that we are taking more and more pple every year lol.

If we can do c-section, why afraid of no job

Matter of when. Not if.
Enjoy it while it lasts.

looks like MOH wants to upgrade the competency of the average gp. push all to get trained in fam med residency then eventually only some will get to work in OPS, rest go to gpland with MMED competency. pay is same but need to learn more. really masterstroke from moh

Mmed can do c section then? Mai talk rubbish la

??
m.med cannot do c section independently unless u from from an alternate universe.
but so can't ur basic fracgp and ccfp.
so where is your basis of comparison that m.med fam med isn't up to the standard of ccfp and fracgp?
just cos u say so?
who are u to say so? u the father of f medicine? or some distinguished professor ?
just cos they are recognised as a ' speciliast' in their country, these fracgp and ccfp are better than sg m.med ?

grow up la.

really cannot argue with idiots. they bring u down their level and beat u with experience.

Mmed can do or cannot do C section independently is not the crux
The crux is we are willing to do it independently and charge 13.80 for it.
The issue now is specialist charging too much.
So we gotta take on more of a procedural role in the future to reduce cost

Yup that has is and always been the plan.
GDFM will soon be worthless in public sector, will need minimum MMed.
No more GDFM FP in OPS. Only MMed and above.
With many MMed-ers churned out from 3 SIs each year, gradually will also spill out into private sector.

Anw what’s all this rubbish about MMed vs ovs FM qualifications.
FM is highly contextualised to the place of practice.
There’s no need to compare.

rubbish is spew by a jelly overseas gp who realise his fracgp is worth **** in Singapore. haha.

not until gdfm is useless in private will sg fam med truly develop.
I mean have u seen how terrible some of the gdfmers are?! I wouldnt trust my enemies with them.

but yes u are right. standard is being step up.
gdfm osce will have real standardised patient this year and pe is needed next year
our gdfm is actually peg to fracgp standard if anyone truly wants to know and moving towards global impression instead of strict pass fail criteria , ie mini m.med standard.

Why standardized patient and not real patient?
U mean gdfm dunno how to do physical exam?

To be honest if mmed cannot do c section what's the difference between gdfm and mmed

Obs is only about c section? Mmed really lacking in OB competency.

Jelly is you mmeders la. Talk so big about mmed.
Your mmed go any first world country cmi. Thats why you all stuck in sg. Enjoy your little red dot.

For tax purpose, if i locum on top of hospital work is it self employed

It is a violation of your employment contract. That's what it is.
For tax purposes yes self employed. But very easy for your hospital to know you locum when they check with IRAS.

No. You can’t just go to IRAS and request to see what tax someone has declared.