How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Does your hours get better as you move up the hierarchy in finance? Because med is all about hard slog at the start (med school + HO/MOPEX/residency) but it gets better after that

It depends on a lot of factors. I would say if u are top 1%, u can have very good hours because the job is actually just doing some cookie cutter work and u could easily ask other ppl to do it.
But in reality, most ppl are just kiasu af, even it is their own firm, they are founder with 4-5 md or junior partner, they still work non-stop.

It's different types of work. Instead of doing the analysis and doing the ground work (due diligence or negotiate docs), they spent a lot of time grilling other ppl's outputs.
Let's say u are an md at a small PE fund, u work long hours together with ur juniors to present an investmentto the fund founder.
Most of these founders would actually read page by page, ask u a lot of questions. Have u done this and that, i want to meet the company ceo before investing, etc.

They also spent a lot of time doing PR work if they are highly successful. Like they would try very hard to join avcj forums, superreturn conference, singapore fintech festival, etc. try as hard as possible to meet people and get attention because all can be converted to money.

There is a small minority of lucky slacker in this industry - usually they hide in large investment banks rather than funds / small shops. These people know how to pretend to have clients / contacts, meeting their friends and fine dine or golf together without any real business brought in. Spent 2-3 weeks in london or new york to "bring our client to meet us partners" or "meet with senior management in hq to discuss our strategy". Do little to nothing and claim expense on company while visiting children who are studying in boarding school there.

My bosses are not this type and they would reply sth like "i cant do 4pm sgt, i have another call, let's do 5pm". Lol **** he is in ny now and he can sleep 2-3h only because he wants to do client meetings in est and client calls in sgt. Some just gung ho af. The slackers are truly impressive but they need to be lucky to make senior, find a slacking team with good relationship with big bosses to survive. And when **** hits the fan, they won't be unscathed so eventually the code to perpetual survival is still work ur ass off and build a reputation. I am not signing up with this type of 1000 origination meetings a year and being 24/7 available.

Most ppl would do this because ur pay keeps going up until u hit 700k-1m. Ur junior life is working 18h a day for 200-400k, while as a senior u only need to work 12h a day plus be available 24/7. Then u can eat 2.5x more vs alternative of making 200-300k inhouse. Obviously if u survived 12-15y hardship u would rather continue the slightly easier hardship for big money than gtfo. If u become a d/md just for exiting to apac head of corporate development at a company that never do m&a in apac and pay u only 300k.

U ask urself why wasted 15y for this instead of mbbs lol. No need 15y also make 300k. Everyone comes here for the big money. So at senior level they even more kiasu coz all the efforts in last 10y gone if u are fired.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It depends on a lot of factors. I would say if u are top 1%, u can have very good hours because the job is actually just doing some cookie cutter work and u could easily ask other ppl to do it.
But in reality, most ppl are just kiasu af, even it is their own firm, they are founder with 4-5 md or junior partner, they still work non-stop.

It's different types of work. Instead of doing the analysis and doing the ground work (due diligence or negotiate docs), they spent a lot of time grilling other ppl's outputs.
Let's say u are an md at a small PE fund, u work long hours together with ur juniors to present an investmentto the fund founder.
Most of these founders would actually read page by page, ask u a lot of questions. Have u done this and that, i want to meet the company ceo before investing, etc.

They also spent a lot of time doing PR work if they are highly successful. Like they would try very hard to join avcj forums, superreturn conference, singapore fintech festival, etc. try as hard as possible to meet people and get attention because all can be converted to money.

There is a small minority of lucky slacker in this industry - usually they hide in large investment banks rather than funds / small shops. These people know how to pretend to have clients / contacts, meeting their friends and fine dine or golf together without any real business brought in. Spent 2-3 weeks in london or new york to "bring our client to meet us partners" or "meet with senior management in hq to discuss our strategy". Do little to nothing and claim expense on company while visiting children who are studying in boarding school there.

My bosses are not this type and they would reply sth like "i cant do 4pm sgt, i have another call, let's do 5pm". Lol **** he is in ny now and he can sleep 2-3h only because he wants to do client meetings in est and client calls in sgt. Some just gung ho af. The slackers are truly impressive but they need to be lucky to make senior, find a slacking team with good relationship with big bosses to survive. And when **** hits the fan, they won't be unscathed so eventually the code to perpetual survival is still work ur ass off and build a reputation. I am not signing up with this type of 1000 origination meetings a year and being 24/7 available.

Most ppl would do this because ur pay keeps going up until u hit 700k-1m. Ur junior life is working 18h a day for 200-400k, while as a senior u only need to work 12h a day plus be available 24/7. Then u can eat 2.5x more vs alternative of making 200-300k inhouse. Obviously if u survived 12-15y hardship u would rather continue the slightly easier hardship for big money than gtfo. If u become a d/md just for exiting to apac head of corporate development at a company that never do m&a in apac and pay u only 300k.

U ask urself why wasted 15y for this instead of mbbs lol. No need 15y also make 300k. Everyone comes here for the big money. So at senior level they even more kiasu coz all the efforts in last 10y gone if u are fired.

You miss the point.
The objective in finance is to make bigger money EARLY on. With those BONUSES.

It's not the monthly. Lower monthly live within means. Then bonus 12 months. 1 whole year worth of "savings". Invest. Buy property with preferential rate mortgages from the financial institution you work for.

Being on the pulse of the market you know when to buy when to sell (hopefully cos you said people dunno?????)

By the time hit 40 can retire already. Portfolio investment diversified or whatever worth enough to generate passive income or returns.

The "job" aspect becomes a choice then.

GP is earn very little at the start. Slog. Slog. Nothing to invest. Then later then get more already into late 30s. Work another 20 years then 50 by then inflation means all the good stuff out of reach. Work another 15 years then retire humble life.

Meanwhile that guy who at 40 got millions in portfolio after 25 years very likely tripled his portfolio already at 65.

End result at 65 the finance guy has TRIPLE the net worth of the GP at 65.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You miss the point.
The objective in finance is to make bigger money EARLY on. With those BONUSES.

It's not the monthly. Lower monthly live within means. Then bonus 12 months. 1 whole year worth of "savings". Invest. Buy property with preferential rate mortgages from the financial institution you work for.

Being on the pulse of the market you know when to buy when to sell (hopefully cos you said people dunno?????)

By the time hit 40 can retire already. Portfolio investment diversified or whatever worth enough to generate passive income or returns.

The "job" aspect becomes a choice then.

GP is earn very little at the start. Slog. Slog. Nothing to invest. Then later then get more already into late 30s. Work another 20 years then 50 by then inflation means all the good stuff out of reach. Work another 15 years then retire humble life.

Meanwhile that guy who at 40 got millions in portfolio after 25 years very likely tripled his portfolio already at 65.

End result at 65 the finance guy has TRIPLE the net worth of the GP at 65.

Very true because I got a JC friend who went finance and he already making 100k/yr as a fresh analyst in IB while I am still slogging in MED4.

And Nvidia was less than $30 that time in 2022

He asked me to invest but I can’t do anything that time because I am still a med student

Fast forward to this year when I start working as a HO. Price already too high for me to invest.

Meanwhile friend already happily semi retired with 3000 Nvidia shares .

Because he got the head start in earnings. He did a 3 year degree from Cambridge (maths)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Very true because I got a JC friend who went finance and he already making 100k/yr as a fresh analyst in IB while I am still slogging in MED4.

And Nvidia was less than $30 that time in 2022

He asked me to invest but I can’t do anything that time because I am still a med student

Fast forward to this year when I start working as a HO. Price already too high for me to invest.

Meanwhile friend already happily semi retired with 3000 Nvidia shares .

Because he got the head start in earnings. He did a 3 year degree from Cambridge (maths)

And he’s already making 220k/yr as a senior associate now while I am making ~75k/yr as a HO

Impossible to catch up to his savings unless he gets retrenched or I specialise

Now I fully understand all the Hippocrates oath everyone takes in med school is a lie

that’s why many just go aesthetics after bond

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You miss the point.
The objective in finance is to make bigger money EARLY on. With those BONUSES.

It's not the monthly. Lower monthly live within means. Then bonus 12 months. 1 whole year worth of "savings". Invest. Buy property with preferential rate mortgages from the financial institution you work for.

Being on the pulse of the market you know when to buy when to sell (hopefully cos you said people dunno?????)

By the time hit 40 can retire already. Portfolio investment diversified or whatever worth enough to generate passive income or returns.

The "job" aspect becomes a choice then.

GP is earn very little at the start. Slog. Slog. Nothing to invest. Then later then get more already into late 30s. Work another 20 years then 50 by then inflation means all the good stuff out of reach. Work another 15 years then retire humble life.

Meanwhile that guy who at 40 got millions in portfolio after 25 years very likely tripled his portfolio already at 65.

End result at 65 the finance guy has TRIPLE the net worth of the GP at 65.

If u assume someone in finance can survive till 40, then it will destroy sg doc in most cases
But the career for most of them don't even make it pass 30.
I am a vp and my batchmate from hk and sg had 35 ppl, only 3 still in my bank and adding mega funds and other banks, we have around 15 ppl
I know some of them quit at analyst 3 to become teacher (yes, wtf), one guy went to Oxford to study sociology and now is doing freelance consulting on AI ethics, one girl quit to study dancing, etc.

I am quite sure u don't earn enough to retire for this in 5y. Some of them just radically changed their mind after being tortured for 5y then laid off. If u see linkedin, there are many who don't update and still have investment banking analyst on their profile after so many years. This industry is full of ppl wo lihke showing off for ego boost (kids who even call themselves "incoming investment banking summer analyst" just to wank and feel good. Imagine how fked they are if they hid their current job.

I recently met 2 ppl who quit as associate to join a GLC in a project (recruiter quoted me 9k a month there) both were ex ib associate and they don't even show their job on linkedin lol.

So yes, if u survive till 40 u will make that money, but most ppl get kicked out a few years in and they make less than a gp from there.

I don't agree knowing the market and invest part. U can find returns of temasek, gic, otpp, cppib online. These are unleveraged investors and their long term return is like 8%. The very top funds bankers exit to like Blackstone kkr tpg cvc make ~15% annualized but they do almost 50% margin leverage every deal (in lay ppl term). U pop 50% leverage on spx see if u will only get 15%. If they can't even beat spx at work (they will call themselves beating spx on risk adjusted basis, yea but on absolute basis lag like 2-3x), why do u think they have the ability to beat in personal account.

Those who trade nvidia or btc are minority. Many don't even put their srs into endowus sp500. At work u hear them discuss krisflyer uob account and where got good money market funds......

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And he’s already making 220k/yr as a senior associate now while I am making ~75k/yr as a HO

Impossible to catch up to his savings unless he gets retrenched or I specialise

Now I fully understand all the Hippocrates oath everyone takes in med school is a lie

that’s why many just go aesthetics after bond

You are creating a straw man argument to prove ur point. Regardless of what job ur working, if u were able to similarly find and invest in undervalued companies like nivida early youd make a **** load of money. In the bigger picture, you would only be lagging by a few 100k or so which is not substantial even after accounting for compounding if u assume reasonable 7-8 percent return. if someone is a whiz at picking stocks they will beat u even if they have a simple governemnt job. As a doc, you could technically go into aesthetics or become private GP at 29. If u work IBD hours there, you should reasonably be able to clear 350-400k a year with additional locum work. By yr logic u can invest for 6 years and easily have 3-4 mil then retire by 45 after “tripling” ur investment return because somehow u think that every guy who works in finance is george soros or warren buffet and is able to triple money in 5-10 years. Heck even if you were making only 60k a year and can invest at 30 percent compound return you’d catch up

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If u assume someone in finance can survive till 40, then it will destroy sg doc in most cases
But the career for most of them don't even make it pass 30.
I am a vp and my batchmate from hk and sg had 35 ppl, only 3 still in my bank and adding mega funds and other banks, we have around 15 ppl
I know some of them quit at analyst 3 to become teacher (yes, wtf), one guy went to Oxford to study sociology and now is doing freelance consulting on AI ethics, one girl quit to study dancing, etc.

I am quite sure u don't earn enough to retire for this in 5y. Some of them just radically changed their mind after being tortured for 5y then laid off. If u see linkedin, there are many who don't update and still have investment banking analyst on their profile after so many years. This industry is full of ppl wo lihke showing off for ego boost (kids who even call themselves "incoming investment banking summer analyst" just to wank and feel good. Imagine how fked they are if they hid their current job.

I recently met 2 ppl who quit as associate to join a GLC in a project (recruiter quoted me 9k a month there) both were ex ib associate and they don't even show their job on linkedin lol.

So yes, if u survive till 40 u will make that money, but most ppl get kicked out a few years in and they make less than a gp from there.

I don't agree knowing the market and invest part. U can find returns of temasek, gic, otpp, cppib online. These are unleveraged investors and their long term return is like 8%. The very top funds bankers exit to like Blackstone kkr tpg cvc make ~15% annualized but they do almost 50% margin leverage every deal (in lay ppl term). U pop 50% leverage on spx see if u will only get 15%. If they can't even beat spx at work (they will call themselves beating spx on risk adjusted basis, yea but on absolute basis lag like 2-3x), why do u think they have the ability to beat in personal account.

Those who trade nvidia or btc are minority. Many don't even put their srs into endowus sp500. At work u hear them discuss krisflyer uob account and where got good money market funds......

Banker quit to study “dancing” that the most ridiculous thing I ever heard

Trolling or serious

If serious wtf is that girl/guy thinking

Unless he/her born to rich parents

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And he’s already making 220k/yr as a senior associate now while I am making ~75k/yr as a HO

Impossible to catch up to his savings unless he gets retrenched or I specialise

Now I fully understand all the Hippocrates oath everyone takes in med school is a lie

that’s why many just go aesthetics after bond

You can definitely catchup if u invest aggressively at a high savings rate and specialise or do aesthetics well

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Banker quit to study “dancing” that the most ridiculous thing I ever heard

Trolling or serious

If serious wtf is that girl/guy thinking

Unless he/her born to rich parents

She is a prc. So i think she is ok just go back to china with 2m sgd
This is another prc. Wharton and quit after 3-4y to study art history or sth at hku
s://.hkihss.hku.hk/en/people/shuo-hua/
s://webb-site.com/dbpub/sfclicrec.asp?p=1910944

Not trolling, serious example
It is very wtf but this industry really changed many ppl
Some of them were born rich and decided to hate their life working and do sth wtf
Some of them were just middle class family and came for money
Get destroyed and decided life is not just about money anymore

I still care about money but give me a psych job 400k i am happy to tak eit
There are dancing students, art history phd, etc. so i won't be the only one who made the call lol
A few of our colleagues in hk have quit to do med, but its entirely different game
I know that dentistry and medicine are crazy money (better than ib in hk) but that is not the base case here in sg

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She is a prc. So i think she is ok just go back to china with 2m sgd
This is another prc. Wharton and quit after 3-4y to study art history or sth at hku
s://.hkihss.hku.hk/en/people/shuo-hua/
s://webb-site.com/dbpub/sfclicrec.asp?p=1910944

Not trolling, serious example
It is very wtf but this industry really changed many ppl
Some of them were born rich and decided to hate their life working and do sth wtf
Some of them were just middle class family and came for money
Get destroyed and decided life is not just about money anymore

I still care about money but give me a psych job 400k i am happy to tak eit
There are dancing students, art history phd, etc. so i won't be the only one who made the call lol
A few of our colleagues in hk have quit to do med, but its entirely different game
I know that dentistry and medicine are crazy money (better than ib in hk) but that is not the base case here in sg

I actually dug that out in case ppl think i am trolling
s://.linkedin.com/in/nina-sun-a4302023
She's my fd's colleague in hk office
Clearly not rich prc otherwise won't go hkust lol
U see rich prc study in us uk lah
She was a director so i guess she would have 2.5-3m savings
After study dancing can go bj and sh retire in a 2br condo for modest life