How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Those last time sit and got gdfm one tan tio lo
Now much much harder liao.

Now need akt, which ur m.med resident sit for also
Osce is a proper station like m.med with sp

Imho, should have been like this all the while.

Just like property, early mover advantage is real. Heard last time fcfp also much easier than now

Hope someone could help shed light on this. Sinkie training in the UK for MRCGP and planning to return as soon as I CCT to work for polyclinic.

Understand I'd have to conditional reg for min 2 years since I didn't graduate from a Scheduled uni. Ditto on whether I'd do mmed at this point.

What can I expect in terms of hours and starting salary for a polyclinic job with only MRCGP? Or would it be difficult to land a job, even though it's supposed to be possible on paper?

Also, is the expectation at polyclinic 5 min per patient?

Many thanks!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hope someone could help shed light on this. Sinkie training in the UK for MRCGP and planning to return as soon as I CCT to work for polyclinic.

Understand I'd have to conditional reg for min 2 years since I didn't graduate from a Scheduled uni. Ditto on whether I'd do mmed at this point.

What can I expect in terms of hours and starting salary for a polyclinic job with only MRCGP? Or would it be difficult to land a job, even though it's supposed to be possible on paper?

Also, is the expectation at polyclinic 5 min per patient?

Many thanks!

Sg is like nhs but worst funded and higher patient expectation

In UK, patient can wait for mths for an appointment but in sg maximum is 3hr at polyclinic
I won't say 5min, maybe 7min.

Basically go in get the diagnosis, prescribe, move on to the next patient
You got to be fast.

We r not here to solve all the patient problem
We r here to solve or partially remedial that acute problem then move on

At your mrcgp level means is mmed, likely Abt 7 to 8k

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hope someone could help shed light on this. Sinkie training in the UK for MRCGP and planning to return as soon as I CCT to work for polyclinic.

Understand I'd have to conditional reg for min 2 years since I didn't graduate from a Scheduled uni. Ditto on whether I'd do mmed at this point.

What can I expect in terms of hours and starting salary for a polyclinic job with only MRCGP? Or would it be difficult to land a job, even though it's supposed to be possible on paper?

Also, is the expectation at polyclinic 5 min per patient?

Many thanks!

To do mmed, you need gdfm.
But with gdfm and mrcgpuk, you can get mcfps by assessment (go look at cfps website), hence you may not need to do mmed.

I would say 8-10 min/PT (but also depends on which polyclinic you work in) but honestly FM in sg very different from FM in UK (I studied and did fy training in UK, before returning to do FM residency here. Culture shock can be real)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hope someone could help shed light on this. Sinkie training in the UK for MRCGP and planning to return as soon as I CCT to work for polyclinic.

Understand I'd have to conditional reg for min 2 years since I didn't graduate from a Scheduled uni. Ditto on whether I'd do mmed at this point.

What can I expect in terms of hours and starting salary for a polyclinic job with only MRCGP? Or would it be difficult to land a job, even though it's supposed to be possible on paper?

Also, is the expectation at polyclinic 5 min per patient?

Many thanks!

Aiyah, every few months got someone like you come in to ask this.
Buay sian ah

Ok. My final time explaining

There are a few things.

First thing is the only only postgraduate degree that lets you go onto the consultant family physician track in the polyclinic is the local M.MED (FM) by NUS.
Nothing else. Whatever ABFM, FRACGP, MRCGP etc, all cannot. This is an internally set rule with all 3 clusters. Don't believe u go dig out one consultant or associate consultant family physician in the polyclinic setting for me to see that does not have a M.MED (FM). ( FYI, only singhealth publish biography of their AC and above)

(You can possibly become a consultant in the community hospital setting if u do the FCFP via an alternate route ( usually MRCP + GDFM -> MCFPS - > FCFP). Usually every year only 1 or 2 go this route. there are a couple of oldies who are consultants in the community hospital with a FRACGP. The door has closed on that . They got in donkey years ago.

As someone who comes back to SG with a MRCGP and a CCT , you can be registered as a FP, aka family physician if you meet the practice requirements. Go to FAPB website to read the accreditation requirements. Before you get a FP registration, you cannot be a FP.

You are hired as a medical officer or GP ( GP in singapore is not a protected tittle. A cardiologist can call himself a GP if he wants )

Coming back you have 3 options.

2 options in Public : Either polyclinic as a straight hire or Minstry of health holdings as a medical officer.

Polyclinic usually doesn't take overseas graduates straight. Not unless u know someone. The reason is fam med practice is really system based practice and not some specialist skill like cutting out a gallbalder where its the same which ever OT you operate in. You need to be in the system for a while before you know what to do. Hiring an overseas grad with no local experience is a gamble that most clinic heads do not want to take. Because adding you as a manpower means an additional 50 patients the clinic has to take on. If you suck , whole clinic suffers. As a head , i rather hire local grads that I had work with ( and there is a lot to choose from).

If you get hired. The salary is about 8K to 8.5K basic. If you have FP status, you get an additional allowance. Probably 600 per month ( equivalent to GDFM rate). You get FP service allowance end of year about 20K
As a FP , starting annual package about 150-160K thereabouts with bonus. As a Resident Physician ( ie, not on FP register yet), about $120K.


MOHH is easier to get hired. You can then ask them to post you to a polyclinic. Usually they will try to help you but they can literally send you anywhere they want. You are hired as a medical officer ( yes, your MRCGP has no value) at about 5K. You go to a polyclinic, do well there , people like you , most heads should be able to secure you another 6 months posting and after 1 year of polyclinic setting you typically can get hired by the polyclinic directly. ( again, internal rule to hire usually after 1 year of good performance) . After that salary as above.
As MO, you salary not great la. 5K x 16 months = 90K annually because there is no calls and weekend rounding stipend.

your 3rd option and which most overseas GP/FP grads take up is to join raffles. Yes, only raffles medical can take conditional registration medical officer. They pay you standard market rate. I'm not sure what it is now. During my time, many many years ago, it was 10.8K for 42 hours of work ( or something like that). Rates might be better now.

Alternatively, why not go to australia. They recognize your MRCGP + CCT as direct conversion to FRACGP ( don't quote me on this. they keep changing. But UK is definitely top of the list for postgrad qualifications accepted). I heard people easily making 300-500K before tax there. You choose some part of northern queensland or Northern terriorites or even broome to practice in, you are just 4-5 hours flight back to Singapore. Find a cute ang mo girl to marry and have nice mixed blood offsprings man...

Anyway, M.med not open to you directly. You have to do GDFM first ( 2 years) , pass it then go do the 1.5 year M.med as a program B candidate. Very siong la.

Singapore polyclinic is not easy to work in. The cognitive load is very high and getting tougher every year as more and more specialist services are set down to us and we are expect to take up more and more screenings and initiatives.
The load is 10 minutes a patient.
You have to take a history, explain results, correct poor insights and explain diagnosis, treatment, arrange tcu, blood test and write your notes all in 10 minutes. 45 times a day at least. Bad days 60 patients also got. How to provide holistic comprehensive care? We are just a production line la.
Patients are also demanding. Somehow people are not grateful for a public health care system that is cheap and relative good by tolerating its inadequacies but complain and demand more and more. Many times, do already also gek sim.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Aiyah, every few months got someone like you come in to ask this.
Buay sian ah

Ok. My final time explaining

There are a few things.

First thing is the only only postgraduate degree that lets you go onto the consultant family physician track in the polyclinic is the local M.MED (FM) by NUS.
Nothing else. Whatever ABFM, FRACGP, MRCGP etc, all cannot. This is an internally set rule with all 3 clusters. Don't believe u go dig out one consultant or associate consultant family physician in the polyclinic setting for me to see that does not have a M.MED (FM). ( FYI, only singhealth publish biography of their AC and above)

(You can possibly become a consultant in the community hospital setting if u do the FCFP via an alternate route ( usually MRCP + GDFM -> MCFPS - > FCFP). Usually every year only 1 or 2 go this route. there are a couple of oldies who are consultants in the community hospital with a FRACGP. The door has closed on that . They got in donkey years ago.

As someone who comes back to SG with a MRCGP and a CCT , you can be registered as a FP, aka family physician if you meet the practice requirements. Go to FAPB website to read the accreditation requirements. Before you get a FP registration, you cannot be a FP.

You are hired as a medical officer or GP ( GP in singapore is not a protected tittle. A cardiologist can call himself a GP if he wants )

Coming back you have 3 options.

2 options in Public : Either polyclinic as a straight hire or Minstry of health holdings as a medical officer.

Polyclinic usually doesn't take overseas graduates straight. Not unless u know someone. The reason is fam med practice is really system based practice and not some specialist skill like cutting out a gallbalder where its the same which ever OT you operate in. You need to be in the system for a while before you know what to do. Hiring an overseas grad with no local experience is a gamble that most clinic heads do not want to take. Because adding you as a manpower means an additional 50 patients the clinic has to take on. If you suck , whole clinic suffers. As a head , i rather hire local grads that I had work with ( and there is a lot to choose from).

If you get hired. The salary is about 8K to 8.5K basic. If you have FP status, you get an additional allowance. Probably 600 per month ( equivalent to GDFM rate). You get FP service allowance end of year about 20K
As a FP , starting annual package about 150-160K thereabouts with bonus. As a Resident Physician ( ie, not on FP register yet), about $120K.


MOHH is easier to get hired. You can then ask them to post you to a polyclinic. Usually they will try to help you but they can literally send you anywhere they want. You are hired as a medical officer ( yes, your MRCGP has no value) at about 5K. You go to a polyclinic, do well there , people like you , most heads should be able to secure you another 6 months posting and after 1 year of polyclinic setting you typically can get hired by the polyclinic directly. ( again, internal rule to hire usually after 1 year of good performance) . After that salary as above.
As MO, you salary not great la. 5K x 16 months = 90K annually because there is no calls and weekend rounding stipend.

your 3rd option and which most overseas GP/FP grads take up is to join raffles. Yes, only raffles medical can take conditional registration medical officer. They pay you standard market rate. I'm not sure what it is now. During my time, many many years ago, it was 10.8K for 42 hours of work ( or something like that). Rates might be better now.

Alternatively, why not go to australia. They recognize your MRCGP + CCT as direct conversion to FRACGP ( don't quote me on this. they keep changing. But UK is definitely top of the list for postgrad qualifications accepted). I heard people easily making 300-500K before tax there. You choose some part of northern queensland or Northern terriorites or even broome to practice in, you are just 4-5 hours flight back to Singapore. Find a cute ang mo girl to marry and have nice mixed blood offsprings man...

Anyway, M.med not open to you directly. You have to do GDFM first ( 2 years) , pass it then go do the 1.5 year M.med as a program B candidate. Very siong la.

Singapore polyclinic is not easy to work in. The cognitive load is very high and getting tougher every year as more and more specialist services are set down to us and we are expect to take up more and more screenings and initiatives.
The load is 10 minutes a patient.
You have to take a history, explain results, correct poor insights and explain diagnosis, treatment, arrange tcu, blood test and write your notes all in 10 minutes. 45 times a day at least. Bad days 60 patients also got. How to provide holistic comprehensive care? We are just a production line la.
Patients are also demanding. Somehow people are not grateful for a public health care system that is cheap and relative good by tolerating its inadequacies but complain and demand more and more. Many times, do already also gek sim.

How is the workload/cognitive load in raffles? They take in conditional reg means they arrange people to supervise your work regularly?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

a. only 3 year residency is fam med. You miss out the current cycle, so u can apply next year 2023 to enter in 2024. Your bond finish in 2025. Btw its 3 applicant for each fam med spot now, so its competitive. Do the maths yourself

b. Ops posting v hard to get. Not that OPS dun want mopex but MOHH priorities manpower to hospital and NCID in view of covid situation. And u need 1 year mopex experience before polyclinic offer u RP . Calculate your chances ba.

c. who say FM qualification dont matter? At least do a GDFM la to get an idea what you are looking at, ah bo everything you fall back to MBBS standard and that is frankly not enough.

d. Use the next 3 years to get good experience la. A&E scope can be good experience but i think 6 months more than enuff to cover u for general practice liao. Can try to get children emergency to be comfortable with kids, posting is not that hard to get.
next do other posting that gives u some chronic disease exposure ( best is OPS posting) like FMCC , community hospital postings.

e. you have to look at career longevity as well. You not even 30 years old and got another 30 years to work. GP land is not that promised land of good money and chill work. its evening work and weekend work and productivity based, ie you have to see patients and more patients. Sometimes work a bit harder when u are young to become a specialist , when u are older, life is really much better.

What about 44 year old and only pgy2. My best option is to finish my bond and work in gpland? Although I am very keen to try IM residency.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

a. only 3 year residency is fam med. You miss out the current cycle, so u can apply next year 2023 to enter in 2024. Your bond finish in 2025. Btw its 3 applicant for each fam med spot now, so its competitive. Do the maths yourself

b. Ops posting v hard to get. Not that OPS dun want mopex but MOHH priorities manpower to hospital and NCID in view of covid situation. And u need 1 year mopex experience before polyclinic offer u RP . Calculate your chances ba.

c. who say FM qualification dont matter? At least do a GDFM la to get an idea what you are looking at, ah bo everything you fall back to MBBS standard and that is frankly not enough.

d. Use the next 3 years to get good experience la. A&E scope can be good experience but i think 6 months more than enuff to cover u for general practice liao. Can try to get children emergency to be comfortable with kids, posting is not that hard to get.
next do other posting that gives u some chronic disease exposure ( best is OPS posting) like FMCC , community hospital postings.

e. you have to look at career longevity as well. You not even 30 years old and got another 30 years to work. GP land is not that promised land of good money and chill work. its evening work and weekend work and productivity based, ie you have to see patients and more patients. Sometimes work a bit harder when u are young to become a specialist , when u are older, life is really much better.

I am 44 yrs old. Pgy 2. During med school I want to try for IM residency. But my best bet good be finish my bond and go to gpland.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You are hired as a medical officer ( yes, your MRCGP has no value) at about 5K... As MO, you salary not great la. 5K x 16 months = 90K annually because there is no calls and weekend rounding stipend.

That sounds bleak for MRCGP. I'm training for psych and will CCT with MRCPsych. Would the prospect be any better?

Although I can potentially CCT and return for conditional registration, I'd have to stick around for another 3 years after my CCT so that I can meet the minimum post-qualification experience the SAB requires, specifically in the country of training (which is the UK for me), for accreditation. Just hoping all those years of experience will count for smthg...

Thx!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Aiyah, every few months got someone like you come in to ask this.
Buay sian ah

Ok. My final time explaining

There are a few things.

First thing is the only only postgraduate degree that lets you go onto the consultant family physician track in the polyclinic is the local M.MED (FM) by NUS.
Nothing else. Whatever ABFM, FRACGP, MRCGP etc, all cannot. This is an internally set rule with all 3 clusters. Don't believe u go dig out one consultant or associate consultant family physician in the polyclinic setting for me to see that does not have a M.MED (FM). ( FYI, only singhealth publish biography of their AC and above)

(You can possibly become a consultant in the community hospital setting if u do the FCFP via an alternate route ( usually MRCP + GDFM -> MCFPS - > FCFP). Usually every year only 1 or 2 go this route. there are a couple of oldies who are consultants in the community hospital with a FRACGP. The door has closed on that . They got in donkey years ago.

As someone who comes back to SG with a MRCGP and a CCT , you can be registered as a FP, aka family physician if you meet the practice requirements. Go to FAPB website to read the accreditation requirements. Before you get a FP registration, you cannot be a FP.

You are hired as a medical officer or GP ( GP in singapore is not a protected tittle. A cardiologist can call himself a GP if he wants )

Coming back you have 3 options.

2 options in Public : Either polyclinic as a straight hire or Minstry of health holdings as a medical officer.

Polyclinic usually doesn't take overseas graduates straight. Not unless u know someone. The reason is fam med practice is really system based practice and not some specialist skill like cutting out a gallbalder where its the same which ever OT you operate in. You need to be in the system for a while before you know what to do. Hiring an overseas grad with no local experience is a gamble that most clinic heads do not want to take. Because adding you as a manpower means an additional 50 patients the clinic has to take on. If you suck , whole clinic suffers. As a head , i rather hire local grads that I had work with ( and there is a lot to choose from).

If you get hired. The salary is about 8K to 8.5K basic. If you have FP status, you get an additional allowance. Probably 600 per month ( equivalent to GDFM rate). You get FP service allowance end of year about 20K
As a FP , starting annual package about 150-160K thereabouts with bonus. As a Resident Physician ( ie, not on FP register yet), about $120K.


MOHH is easier to get hired. You can then ask them to post you to a polyclinic. Usually they will try to help you but they can literally send you anywhere they want. You are hired as a medical officer ( yes, your MRCGP has no value) at about 5K. You go to a polyclinic, do well there , people like you , most heads should be able to secure you another 6 months posting and after 1 year of polyclinic setting you typically can get hired by the polyclinic directly. ( again, internal rule to hire usually after 1 year of good performance) . After that salary as above.
As MO, you salary not great la. 5K x 16 months = 90K annually because there is no calls and weekend rounding stipend.

your 3rd option and which most overseas GP/FP grads take up is to join raffles. Yes, only raffles medical can take conditional registration medical officer. They pay you standard market rate. I'm not sure what it is now. During my time, many many years ago, it was 10.8K for 42 hours of work ( or something like that). Rates might be better now.

Alternatively, why not go to australia. They recognize your MRCGP + CCT as direct conversion to FRACGP ( don't quote me on this. they keep changing. But UK is definitely top of the list for postgrad qualifications accepted). I heard people easily making 300-500K before tax there. You choose some part of northern queensland or Northern terriorites or even broome to practice in, you are just 4-5 hours flight back to Singapore. Find a cute ang mo girl to marry and have nice mixed blood offsprings man...

Anyway, M.med not open to you directly. You have to do GDFM first ( 2 years) , pass it then go do the 1.5 year M.med as a program B candidate. Very siong la.

Singapore polyclinic is not easy to work in. The cognitive load is very high and getting tougher every year as more and more specialist services are set down to us and we are expect to take up more and more screenings and initiatives.
The load is 10 minutes a patient.
You have to take a history, explain results, correct poor insights and explain diagnosis, treatment, arrange tcu, blood test and write your notes all in 10 minutes. 45 times a day at least. Bad days 60 patients also got. How to provide holistic comprehensive care? We are just a production line la.
Patients are also demanding. Somehow people are not grateful for a public health care system that is cheap and relative good by tolerating its inadequacies but complain and demand more and more. Many times, do already also gek sim.

Thanks again for the insightful response! Wish we could pin this for others who may have similar questions.

One more question: Heard SG Drs work 80-100 hrs/wk. Can't be true in a polyclinic setting, right? What if I have to apply to MOHH for an MO job? Would that mean I'd have to go through MOPEX with rotas of 80-100 hrs/wk (with allowances/stipend), at least until I secure a polyclinic placement?