Would you join a loss making company?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

OP: How much you make now?

The lowball offer + 2-3 pax team does not sound like #2 senior position in the region of a mnc at all.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Have to go with above q as well. My brother is a lower level project manager in Seadrill (consider small mnc) already supervising ~10 technical and project support function staff. How can no. 2 senior in the whole region be leading a 2 man team?

Sorry wasn't clear.. the position has 2-3 direct reports and is also the No 2 in the region with oversight of the other departments. Not all departments has so many support functions doing grunt work.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry wasn't clear.. the position has 2-3 direct reports and is also the No 2 in the region with oversight of the other departments. Not all departments has so many support functions doing grunt work.

Still not quite getting it. You mean you as the regional #2 guy have only 2-3 direct reports but have 'oversight' of other regional departments (like Sales, Finance, IT, HR, Procurement, Engineering, Projects etc.) that are not reporting to you? Did you ask the company what does that mean in the first place?

I thought I will chip in since I had just a somewhat similar experience:
- Moved from the #1 MNC in my field (based on revenues) to somewhere #30+ down the line (new employer role is a more of a niche player)
- Previous role had 3 direct reports. New role individual contributor,.
- New employer was bleeding for last 2 years when I was talking to them
- Increase in salary was about 18%, not factoring bonuses (for my industry bonus is quite quite heng suay but previous employer was consistently paying out about 2 months since I was there)

My eventual reasons to move:
1. Change in product of which new employer is top 2-3 in that space (like I said niche player). so an opportunity to expand at least horizontally and hopefully be more employable.
2. Financially, I figured I will at worse break-even if there are no bonuses. Also, the company was also seem to be turning the corner based on publicly available information.
3. There's also some shortage in the market at the moment for what I do so I figure I could go elsewhere if it really goes tits up at the new employer.

For the OP:
- My advice is that you really need to think about why this role is attractive to you since your financial upside somewhat limited like in my case.
- You didn't say whether you are currently from the O&G industry but if you are not, I will be very cautious since the GM does not seem to indicate if there is a plan for the business to survive the current downturn. (I am not from the industry so I can't judge what can be done but companies should at least have a plan.)
- What is your risk-mitigation plan if this goes bad in 12 months? Can you find another role somewhere else relatively easily or even go back to your current company? Alternatively, do you think the new role will make you even more employable in the future?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

For the OP:
- My advice is that you really need to think about why this role is attractive to you since your financial upside somewhat limited like in my case.
- You didn't say whether you are currently from the O&G industry but if you are not, I will be very cautious since the GM does not seem to indicate if there is a plan for the business to survive the current downturn. (I am not from the industry so I can't judge what can be done but companies should at least have a plan.)
- What is your risk-mitigation plan if this goes bad in 12 months? Can you find another role somewhere else relatively easily or even go back to your current company? Alternatively, do you think the new role will make you even more employable in the future?

Some good points shared, but I think your advice to OP isn't really realistic for him to have an answer.

Firstly, GM ain't gonna share about business plans that are likely very confidential with an interviewee. You end up with generic directions and strategy talk that in most cases mean nothing, not to mention there is no reasonable way for OP to judge whether they make sense without looking at the hard numbers. So this idea of judging the company based on 'plan' isn't reliable.

Risk mitigation plan is a fancy word, but in reality 12 months later whether he can go back to his old company will only be known when he actually apply by that time. Nobody can promise anything and in life we just have to accept unknown. The way to mitigate this unknown is to demand a much higher salary so that if it doesn't work out, at least the big financial gain can cushion the impact.

My advice to OP is to:

- Negotiate for a much larger increase, the current offer is way too low considering the risks involved.

- Find out from the interviewer, industry sources if available, online etc. to gather more information on how this company works. Currently OP's main attraction is the job is much bigger (he says its a promotion to the 2nd highest guy in the region), but the lowball offer and the job scope (lead a 2-3 man team) does not sound like senior hire at all.

- Based on my understanding of most mid sized mnc, a deputy head of the region should be drawing 500-700k including bonus/shares and leading at least a core regional department or business unit.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Some good points shared, but I think your advice to OP isn't really realistic for him to have an answer.

Firstly, GM ain't gonna share about business plans that are likely very confidential with an interviewee. You end up with generic directions and strategy talk that in most cases mean nothing, not to mention there is no reasonable way for OP to judge whether they make sense without looking at the hard numbers. So this idea of judging the company based on 'plan' isn't reliable.

Risk mitigation plan is a fancy word, but in reality 12 months later whether he can go back to his old company will only be known when he actually apply by that time. Nobody can promise anything and in life we just have to accept unknown. The way to mitigate this unknown is to demand a much higher salary so that if it doesn't work out, at least the big financial gain can cushion the impact.

My advice to OP is to:

- Negotiate for a much larger increase, the current offer is way too low considering the risks involved.

- Find out from the interviewer, industry sources if available, online etc. to gather more information on how this company works. Currently OP's main attraction is the job is much bigger (he says its a promotion to the 2nd highest guy in the region), but the lowball offer and the job scope (lead a 2-3 man team) does not sound like senior hire at all.

- Based on my understanding of most mid sized mnc, a deputy head of the region should be drawing 500-700k including bonus/shares and leading at least a core regional department or business unit.

you sound like a loser jealous of other achievement and can find a bigger high paying job... the downs is high on this one.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I thought I will chip in since I had just a somewhat similar experience:
- Moved from the #1 MNC in my field (based on revenues) to somewhere #30+ down the line (new employer role is a more of a niche player)
- Previous role had 3 direct reports. New role individual contributor,.
- New employer was bleeding for last 2 years when I was talking to them
- Increase in salary was about 18%, not factoring bonuses (for my industry bonus is quite quite heng suay but previous employer was consistently paying out about 2 months since I was there)

My eventual reasons to move:
1. Change in product of which new employer is top 2-3 in that space (like I said niche player). so an opportunity to expand at least horizontally and hopefully be more employable.
2. Financially, I figured I will at worse break-even if there are no bonuses. Also, the company was also seem to be turning the corner based on publicly available information.
3. There's also some shortage in the market at the moment for what I do so I figure I could go elsewhere if it really goes tits up at the new employer.

For the OP:
- My advice is that you really need to think about why this role is attractive to you since your financial upside somewhat limited like in my case.
- You didn't say whether you are currently from the O&G industry but if you are not, I will be very cautious since the GM does not seem to indicate if there is a plan for the business to survive the current downturn. (I am not from the industry so I can't judge what can be done but companies should at least have a plan.)
- What is your risk-mitigation plan if this goes bad in 12 months? Can you find another role somewhere else relatively easily or even go back to your current company? Alternatively, do you think the new role will make you even more employable in the future?

I'm the TS. I think this poster understands my situation the best. I'm now waiting for the offer.. whether I take the job or not will depend on what they offer me.