Civil Service Pay - Director level

Originally Posted by Bean

my boss last time 17-18 years exp in GLC, only getting M2 in jan 2008, only getting 6.9-7k by this july!!

Your boss really CMI. Most grads can reach M2 in <10 years.

[Bean]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Your boss really CMI. Most grads can reach M2 in <10 years.

not really , as far as i know, i have beeen there in 4-5 years, he have been getting 'A' grading consecutively for the last 4-5 years...

not my boss sux, is the company itself, especially the annual/promotion increment really sux for list LOCAL MNC.

it just did not make any sense, that when you promoted, you only getting addition 4-6% for average n above average performer......'A' performer get 8% maximum(which is very rare)!!!!.... with additional workload for just $100-200.more..when you promoted!!!

I thought a promotion is at least +15-25% one

Originally Posted by Bean

not really , as far as i know, i have beeen there in 4-5 years, he have been getting 'A' grading consecutively for the last 4-5 years...

not my boss sux, is the company itself, especially the annual/promotion increment really sux for list LOCAL MNC.

it just did not make any sense, that when you promoted, you only getting addition 4-6% for average n above average performer......'A' performer get 8% maximum(which is very rare)!!!!.... with additional workload for just $100-200.more..when you promoted!!!

I thought a promotion is at least +15-25% one

u sure u got accurate info? did u see it yourself?
did u check other ppl info in the company ?
anyway my stat board promotion only 10-15% and it is inclusive of annual increment no such thing as in addition.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Haha, well you are speaking to a trained financial engineer so peddle your stuff somewhere else. I'm sure you like to think that your risks can be hedged away easily but seriously, there's no one MNCs like to axe more than an overpaid executive in his mid 40s, bearing in mind the widening gates and increasing pool of well educated grads/post-grads that will flood the markets here in the next 10-20 years. Sure, one can always fight to stay afloat, but default risk is greater than ever before, and will continue to increase. I seriously doubt contacts are the best bets in such cases. By 40s, you are too old and expensive to be rehired without a substantive paycut. Remember then, that while you are treading water, govt directors are leading easier lives without worry till retirement.

Govt risk free rate below inflation rate? are you sure? You seriously need to check your facts first. I hope this is not the kind of research you do in office otherwise you will get sacked. The annual increments in govt service for senior officers are definitely in excess of inflation, putting aside bonuses and promotional increments. And even that is an irrelevant point that you had brought up. Salaries don't grow perpetually and we are comparing steady states, ie assuming 2 persons maxing out at directorship. By then, their annual packages would have stabilised at a certain level (i.e. minimal growth) hence we are just comparing 2 bonds, one paying an annual coupon of 300k, the other im not sure, 500k? However the former is a treasury, 0 chance of default. We all love our junk bonds, but people still keep lots of treasuries for good reasons.

You also talk as though becoming an MP or sitting on a GLC board is easily within reach. Don't want to burst your bubble but pls don't get ahead of yourself. Certainly someone who expresses himself like you isn't exactly MP calibre. We all expect MPs to speak with humility don't we.

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Haha, well you are speaking to a trained financial engineer so peddle your stuff somewhere else. I'm sure you like to think that your risks can be hedged away easily but seriously, there's no one MNCs like to axe more than an overpaid executive in his mid 40s, bearing in mind the widening gates and increasing pool of well educated grads/post-grads that will flood the markets here in the next 10-20 years. Sure, one can always fight to stay afloat, but default risk is greater than ever before, and will continue to increase. I seriously doubt contacts are the best bets in such cases. By 40s, you are too old and expensive to be rehired without a substantive paycut. Remember then, that while you are treading water, govt directors are leading easier lives without worry till retirement.

Govt risk free rate below inflation rate? are you sure? You seriously need to check your facts first. I hope this is not the kind of research you do in office otherwise you will get sacked. The annual increments in govt service for senior officers are definitely in excess of inflation, putting aside bonuses and promotional increments. And even that is an irrelevant point that you had brought up. Salaries don't grow perpetually and we are comparing steady states, ie assuming 2 persons maxing out at directorship. By then, their annual packages would have stabilised at a certain level (i.e. minimal growth) hence we are just comparing 2 bonds, one paying an annual coupon of 300k, the other im not sure, 500k? However the former is a treasury, 0 chance of default. We all love our junk bonds, but people still keep lots of treasuries for good reasons.

You also talk as though becoming an MP or sitting on a GLC board is easily within reach. Don't want to burst your bubble but pls don't get ahead of yourself. Certainly someone who expresses himself like you isn't exactly MP calibre. We all expect MPs to speak with humility don't we.

Which MPs have spoken with humility? Vikram Nair or Baey Yam Keng?

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

What makes you think im still going to be in service. in fact that is most likely changing in a couple of weeks. However, even as i leave, i recognise the benefits of being in service that I will be giving up; that includes the benefits (had i eventually became a director/div director) such as the steady income stream and work/life balance, among other things. There is no need to put down others even if one picks a different route.

Again, there is no need to tell me about copulas and credit risk since im FE. The stochastic nature of credit risk can be simplified via conditional probability on gaussian RV, and the resultant integral can be solved simply using gauss hermite quadrature. Personally, i doubt people in the industry bother to model the forward interest rates stochastically. I won't if i were them as there is not much added value. A deterministic interest rate curve would be good enough. If things change, run again. So a normal PC will do. No need to be cheem for the sake of being cheem.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Which MPs have spoken with humility? Vikram Nair or Baey Yam Keng?

Read my words carefully. I said we all expect our MPs to speak with humility. Those who didn't are getting tongue lashed these days.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What makes you think im still going to be in service. in fact that is most likely changing in a couple of weeks. However, even as i leave, i recognise the benefits of being in service that I will be giving up; that includes the benefits (had i eventually became a director/div director) such as the steady income stream and work/life balance, among other things. There is no need to put down others even if one picks a different route.

Again, there is no need to tell me about copulas and credit risk since im FE. The stochastic nature of credit risk can be simplified via conditional probability on gaussian RV, and the resultant integral can be solved simply using gauss hermite quadrature. Personally, i doubt people in the industry bother to model the forward interest rates stochastically. I won't if i were them as there is not much added value. A deterministic interest rate curve would be good enough. If things change, run again. So a normal PC will do. No need to be cheem for the sake of being cheem.

I rest my case - you are voting with your feet by leaving the civil service.
A word of advice
1) to have credibility - practice what you preach
2) if you are going to be FE in your next job, the industry standard is to treat any optionality product longer than 3year maturity to have stochastic interest rates. Please dont act like you know all like you have been in civil service, otherwise you will get sacked soon.

Good luck to your next role

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

**********************

Its jokers like you who are losers.
If you are good, you can make your point using simple english. No need to strut your stuff around.
In your next thread, you even allude to the other party being sacked soon...not cool.
I suggest something to you in simple lingo- go improve on your EQ.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I realise that I did bark at the wrong tree, we need risk-averse people like you to be in civil service. Even armed with financial engineering, you are still convinced of your risk-free returns is better than risk-adjusted returns in MNCs. Looks like you should have studied masters of public adminstration.
Perhaps I should be thankful, we need people like you to maintain the current bureaucratic regime, while the bold, the entrepreneurial risk-taker conquer the world.

Talking about applying your financial engineering skills, perhaps you should solve this problem of default probability using gaussian copula function to model the risk of Nth to default (p/s : you need a super-computer to solve this, because there are thousands of reference entities, skewed stochastic vol curve, and since this is long-dated, forward interest rates are stochastic too!)

**********************

Its jokers like you who are losers.
If you are good, you can make your point using simple english. No need to strut your stuff around.
In your next thread, you even allude to the other party being sacked soon...not cool.
I suggest something to you in simple lingo- go improve on your EQ.

Don't bother about this Anoynomous chap, he goes around every banking thread repeating the same few jargons at every occasion to try & impress others he's some hot shot investment guy.

There are a few experienced people here here who give sound and sensible advice to others without spouting unintelligible crap.