Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You aren't in a position to be choosy buddy. BTW this firm's lawyers have big firm pedigree so if I'm sure they're quite discerning as to who they'll take in. What makes you think they will want you

Beggars can't be choosers - this also applies to small law firms who just cannot find good candidates to take in as trainees. Therefore, almost any tom dick and harry with a qualifying law degree could get into small law firms.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You aren't in a position to be choosy buddy. BTW this firm's lawyers have big firm pedigree so if I'm sure they're quite discerning as to who they'll take in. What makes you think they will want you

Big firm pedigree lol. Just because they were associates at big 4?

They have balls.

I won't call them "big firm pedigree" either. 1 - 3 years in a big 4 doesn't count for much. You're just a paper churner, probably not heavily involved in case strategy with limited client interaction.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Big firm pedigree lol. Just because they were associates at big 4?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

They have balls.

I won't call them "big firm pedigree" either. 1 - 3 years in a big 4 doesn't count for much. You're just a paper churner, probably not heavily involved in case strategy with limited client interaction.

true, but that doesn't change the fact that OP is a beggar trying to be a chooser, esp if he cant get a TC at this stage of year 3 already

he should realise that even Tan Ah Kow LLP in People's Park Centre may not want him: 1) too many other candidates who will take any TC offer they can get and 2) they might not have the budget for trainees

Is the prospects for law graduates still great?

From what I can see, there has been a glut of lawyers since 2015. And in the long run, AI is poised to supplant lawyers in some areas of practice. Therefore, is it still worth it to spend 4 years in uni + 6 months on a tc (provided that I can even secure a tc in the first place) earning around 1/5 of my peers, to enter a career where I have a 75% possibility of quitting within 10 years?

Yes, the government has cut down on the number of UK schools that are recognised here, as well as increased the size of the pie by promoting Singapore as an international arbitration center. The legal industry is also probably protected, where local supply is monitored and regulated. However, no one knows the effectiveness of these measures and even if they do work as intended, how long will it take?

I have accepted an offer to study law locally, but there is still an opportunity for me to switch to other courses (Business and Computing may be?). As someone with no particular interest / preference, should I make the switch?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is the prospects for law graduates still great? ...

Short answer, no. As you've mentioned, increased supply of law grads and contracting demand for legal services has led to a downward trend in terms of prospects.

On the AI issue, yes there's going to be automation of many tedious jobs that junior lawyers are typically tasked with e.g. discovery, first cuts of draft agreements, etc. However, I don't think AI can ever replace lawyers in the near future. It's likely that it'll free up juniors from mundane tasks and focus on more complex issues that can't be automated. Like most other experienced lawyers here, I've spent years on soul-crushing jobs but I can't say I've really learned very much. The most valuable experience I've had tended to be higher up-stream.

Now more than ever, being successful in law is a tough gig. You need stellar grades to even get internships in a hope to get a TC at a reputable firm. If you're middle of the pack, it's a tricky decision whether to invest the time to get a law degree and pursue a career in law. I'd speak to more lawyers in the profession to get a feel if it's a path you wanna take..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is the prospects for law graduates still great?

From what I can see, there has been a glut of lawyers since 2015. And in the long run, AI is poised to supplant lawyers in some areas of practice. Therefore, is it still worth it to spend 4 years in uni + 6 months on a tc (provided that I can even secure a tc in the first place) earning around 1/5 of my peers, to enter a career where I have a 75% possibility of quitting within 10 years?

Yes, the government has cut down on the number of UK schools that are recognised here, as well as increased the size of the pie by promoting Singapore as an international arbitration center. The legal industry is also probably protected, where local supply is monitored and regulated. However, no one knows the effectiveness of these measures and even if they do work as intended, how long will it take?

I have accepted an offer to study law locally, but there is still an opportunity for me to switch to other courses (Business and Computing may be?). As someone with no particular interest / preference, should I make the switch?

Do double degree computing and law. Then you can work on the AI that replaces the lawyer.
But honestly all professions are at risk of being replaced by AI. Doctors, engineers included.
If it is a true AI , there would be no job left. Except for the world oldest profession.

I just ended SMU JD. However my tc is with a very small firm which pays rather pathetic and not paying for my Part B course. The firm is also not retaining. I wonder why must I put myself through this torture.

I am in debt. I spent $70,000 on JD.

I want to know whether is the NUS Graduate Law Program students are also facing same issues as I am? Do they make it to big 4 law firms / international firms?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just ended SMU JD. However my tc is with a very small firm which pays rather pathetic and not paying for my Part B course. The firm is also not retaining. I wonder why must I put myself through this torture.

I am in debt. I spent $70,000 on JD.

I want to know whether is the NUS Graduate Law Program students are also facing same issues as I am? Do they make it to big 4 law firms / international firms?

I have friends who did the GLB, most of them only managed to secure TCs with small or medium firms. Only one person who was on the deans list once got into big 4. Somehow the GLBs just didn't do well enough in school, didn't get placed on dean's list, didn't do well in moots.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have friends who did the GLB, most of them only managed to secure TCs with small or medium firms. Only one person who was on the deans list once got into big 4. Somehow the GLBs just didn't do well enough in school, didn't get placed on dean's list, didn't do well in moots.

In my 2nd year of practice here from NUS, I know many of the GLBs from my cohort (friends or acquaintances). I think the sample size of the GLB intake is too small to make any such form of generalisation. And they only do 3 years so there's less opportunity for them to land some form of awards or prizes or dean's list etc.

The truth of the matter is that these years have been the worst time to graduate as a law student in recent memory, and many firms in Singapore are facing challenging economic times. Beneath the veneer of glitz and prestige that even some of the big firms are presenting, they are desperately cost cutting and tightening their budget.

It amazes me how ignorant we all were about the structural & economic challenges in the market when we were students...the very same market that all of us were vying so hard to get into. These are the things they don't tell you at Careers Fair.

The difficulty that we faced as students landing a TC was but a taste of how poorly the market is doing, compared to pre GFC (2008). We have solid second Uppers and Firsts from reputable UK universities failing to get into the big 4.

What's more, many of my peers who did land a big 4 TC didn't survive the cut for retention and have been floating around small to mid sized firms.

Hopefully the GLBs & JDs soon graduating are motivated by more than prestige and money, because due to luck of the draw or lack of a crystal ball, they are coming into a poor time to be a jobseeker in this market. If they're chaps who switched to law as a second career, hopefully they are mature enough to have more internalised reasons to become lawyers than just purely prestige, because they sure as hell took a big hit in opportunity cost with high risk and poor odds for a good ROI.