Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I won't say it would be easier to get into an intl firm with a UK degree as compared to NUS degree - both are equally recognised. I have friends who graduated from both local and UK unis getting into foreign firms, although more of my UK friends landed jobs in intl firms.

If I were in your shoes, I would choose LSE if you are able to afford it. Living in another country broadens your horizons, and strengthens you as a person. We study less subjects in UK, typically 4 modules per year (whereas NUS teaches i think around 8 - 10 subjects a year? - I am not sure), and we probably need to read up on other aspects of law (e.g. insolvency law, intellectual property law etc) if we did not choose these subjects for the final year. But you also get to have lots of fun, travel extensively and you get to put yourself out of your comfort zone.

I can say the 3 years in London changed me as a person, in a positive way. I learnt to be less competitive and that you don't need to step over another person to climb your way up I don't know if it's because of my UK degree that landed me the job, or the person I am now due to those 3 years in UK.

If you are able to graduate with a first class from LSE, you may be able to land a training contract in one of the MC firms in London itself So that opens another alternative for you.

In other words, work less, achieve more, so long as daddy is rich.

Ah, meritocracy. The bedrock of our society.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi everyone, am asking a sincere question so hopefully I'll get some sincere replies! Can I ask if getting a law degree from LSE will enable me to enter the international firms more easily, and more importantly since an education at LSE is significantly more expensive, can I know if the benefits reaped from going there can justify the costs? Have gotten places at both NUS and LSE, but am really very undecided about which option to go for. Thanks in advance!

I would say LSE would significantly open up your options compared to a NUS Law degree. IMO, you carry your degree-granting institutions' name for life. Don't choose something you are going to regret and wonder 'what if?' for the rest of your life.

Hi,

Could anyone share what are first year salaries (all in and base) for Big 4 like this year? Apparently the pay fell from previous years due to the oversupply of lawyers?

Please share, thanks!

Originally Posted by tanghao

Was an arts student who stumbled into banking, and for the next good 10 years. Recently I have been reading up about law and wondering if my private banking experience would ever stand me in any good stead ?

Why in the world would you want to do that??

Do you really want to switch from a cushy RM job to become an overworked underpaid and much abused junior associate?

And yes, you will start out at the bottom. There's no way you will lateral to a midlevel position without prior legal experience; it doesn't work that way.

On a related note, your PB experience will definitely get you traction in the following practice areas: private client, wealth planning / asset management, trust and estates. Especially your extensive contacts with other private bankers.

Not many law firms have practice groups in this area here, after all this isn't London and there aren't that many dukes, duchesses and billionaire Russian oligarchs here (only rich Indonesians and they are usually shady).

Your best bet would be offshore firms: eg Ogier, Walkers, Harneys, Maples & Calder, Conyers.

Agree with this. You need to invest 5 years of your life to become called to the bar, and that's not even guaranteed if you can't get a training contract.

If you want to do it purely out of interest without actually requiring the $, then go for it. If not, I don't think it makes sense financially.

Say you graduated at 22 + 10 years of working experience = 32 years of age now. You will be a newly called associate at 37 / 38. Up to you to weigh the pros and cons. You will be expected to work overnighters, at the age of 38, with the 24 year olds. But if you have the illusion that lawyers earn a lot, you need to wake up your idea.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Why in the world would you want to do that??

Do you really want to switch from a cushy RM job to become an overworked underpaid and much abused junior associate?

And yes, you will start out at the bottom. There's no way you will lateral to a midlevel position without prior legal experience; it doesn't work that way.

On a related note, your PB experience will definitely get you traction in the following practice areas: private client, wealth planning / asset management, trust and estates. Especially your extensive contacts with other private bankers.

Not many law firms have practice groups in this area here, after all this isn't London and there aren't that many dukes, duchesses and billionaire Russian oligarchs here (only rich Indonesians and they are usually shady).

Your best bet would be offshore firms: eg Ogier, Walkers, Harneys, Maples & Calder, Conyers.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi everyone, am asking a sincere question so hopefully I'll get some sincere replies! Can I ask if getting a law degree from LSE will enable me to enter the international firms more easily, and more importantly since an education at LSE is significantly more expensive, can I know if the benefits reaped from going there can justify the costs? Have gotten places at both NUS and LSE, but am really very undecided about which option to go for. Thanks in advance!

Hi, I have been practising for a few years and I went to a top-ranked UK uni. Disclaimer: I have only worked for / received offers from Singapore law firms (including 3 of the big 4 local law firms) and all comments are based on my personal experience.

From my observation, Singapore employers (both law firms and general counsels) do somewhat recognize the supposed prestige of an Oxbridge/LSE/UCL degree over NUS. However, ultimately it depends on your class of honours. For example, an NUS first class honours will win an Oxbridge second upper any time. Try to get a book prize or two if possible. Your modules in law school may be considered too - some modules (such as family law) may not be popular with the big law firms. Once you have a foot in the door (i.e. a training contract or a job offer), no one cares about your grades - it's all about what you bring to the table. Law firm partners expect you to work very very hard, you have to prepare yourself mentally. I have seen Oxbridge graduates being fired and NUS second lowers making partner.

From my personal experience, at the associate level, some NUS (second lower) friends seem to have a hard time with job applications. Magic Circle training contracts in London are extremely competitive and the firms tend to favour the locals - none of my Singaporean peers went down that route.

I always felt that the local alumni network would be useful, especially if you're looking to make partner. If money is an issue or consideration, and you are confidently of scoring a second upper at NUS, I'd suggest that you go with NUS.

Let me know if you have further questions and we can chat privately?

^ Untrue. With the exception of Oxbridge, I have never seen law graduates from UCL or LSE held in higher regard than graduates from NUS or SMU by local law firms.

Everybody who could get into NUS or SMU Law could get into either UCL or LSE, but the converse is not true.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

^ Untrue. With the exception of Oxbridge, I have never seen law graduates from UCL or LSE held in higher regard than graduates from NUS or SMU by local law firms.

Everybody who could get into NUS or SMU Law could get into either UCL or LSE, but the converse is not true.

I'm the poster from #1418. I am speaking from my personal experience as a PQE 6 lawyer. I won't make sweeping statements like you did, but I personally know equity partners who hold UK institution brand names in high regard.

I have no personal interest in this debate, I am just trying to help out a junior. It's ultimately his or her decision to make, in consultation with the parents.

currently in a big4 firm now - #1418 is right: once you're in, no one gives a hoot about your grades. it's all about what you bring to the table, how you present yourself, whether your work is solid. i've seen trainees with a first from NUS not offered retention - and hey at least we know they weren't retained because of their academic records... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted by Unregistered

^ Untrue. With the exception of Oxbridge, I have never seen law graduates from UCL or LSE held in higher regard than graduates from NUS or SMU by local law firms.

Everybody who could get into NUS or SMU Law could get into either UCL or LSE, but the converse is not true.

Agreed with the PQE 6 lawyer, not sure where you are getting your information from but your last statement is patently false and simply a broad, general assertion (in fact, your entire post is one large, sweeping statement).

I personally know managing partners in MC who would put any decent UK institution (including KCL) above NUS Law or SMU Law any day. I'm sorry that the local universities do not have their pick of the creme de la creme and that you feel the need to react this way but please don't jeopardise someone's entire future to soothe your ego.