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  #911 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2016, 08:30 PM
Pippa
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Unhappy Let me guess

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This is insanely idealistic. Seriously, good luck with that.

I graduated a few years back from a university in the UK that's arguably considered prestigious (it remains on the approved list, so make an educated guess) and I know of no more than 10 classmates from my batch who made it as solicitors / barristers. They were:

(1) mostly British - locals are definitely favoured over international applicants.
(2) graduated with first class honours (those who did with 2:1 were all outstanding, award-winning mooters, wrote for the law review, etc.)
(3) aggressively networking from the first year of law school and marketing themselves to representatives from law firms.
(4) very nice, friendly, and personable in general (at least that was my impression of them)

If you're looking for a place in the UK I'd say the odds are stacked against you because first, statistically as a Singaporean, you are basically up against talented and qualified British graduates; you need to be more outstanding than them. I don't know you but from your language skills and the way you put your points across (I'll elaborate on this below) - I don't think that this is the case here. I also don't think you know how much worse the market in the UK is, there are many, many more law schools and only so few places in law firms. What makes you think that anyone will hire you?

More importantly you sound like your head is up in the clouds and I'd make an educated guess - even if you do manage to squeeze into a law firm nobody would really like you there. It's not just your view on the UK syllabus vs. the Singapore syllabus - it's the way you put your opinion across - you put on an air of self-righteousness which is definitely unwarranted considering the fact that you are only a university student with little experience in the real world. It's okay to have a differing view, but it should be put across thoughtfully and not in the sarcastic, condescending tone that you have adopted that has pissed so many people off.

I don't purport to be an expert in life (I'm currently only a second-year associate... What do I know? Lol) but I've seen trainees and associates come and go because the partners in the firm thought they were arrogant dicks. Believe me, it matters a lot more than you think it is.

But anyway, if your UK dreams fall apart (which I'm quite sure they will) you sound like you can come to Singapore and be a constitutional lawyer whose best argument is "THE COURTS ARE BIASED! WHAT A KANGAROO COURT! LOOK AT THE UK! DICEY DICEY DICEY! WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A LEGAL SYSTEM LIKE THE UK! THE PAP SUCKS!"

You get my drift.
Let me guess. in all of your time in uk, you stayed in your little dorm room the size of a HDB storeroom, you never ventured out cos you dislike the cold weather, you stayed indoors and blasted the heater to give you the 'SG' feel, you felt small around the british and other European nationalities, you went berserk when you saw China guys with white girls, you went bonkers when you saw nigerian guys with white girls, you went through the roof when you saw Pakistani guys with the PRC girls and just when you thought all hope was gone, you caught sight of the Malaysian student society and so you infiltrated that organisation in the hope that at least you could exercise your weight over them given the strong SG currency and other Number 1s that SG is never short off but the Malaysian Society told you exactly where to go and you ended up right where you started 'in that little dorm room the size of a HDB storeroom.'

I don't fit the typical SG mould. I broke out of it a long time ago. thats why dating wise I'm doing good, social life is also good and chances of getting a training contract is strong cos i have additional strong points.

come to think of it, you should have just stayed put in SG. why waste your time and parents money travelling to another part of the world only to retain the SG mentality and mix around with the same old group of people that you could very well have mixed with if you had stayed put in the first place?

you graduated as a lawyer but you chose to hide in your office. What a waste. All that UK knowledge down the drain

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  #912 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2016, 08:40 PM
Pippa
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Default be original

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I think it's actually great that you've taken such an interest in these topics. The legal profession is usually perceived as being cold and hard-nosed - we could always use a dose of idealism.

But I would just suggest absorbing a bit of pragmatism as well. These are not areas that get you employed so there's no point going on about how these areas are so wonderful. No UK firm would hire you to advise on these issues. Why would any self-respecting Englishman engage a Singaporean, from an admittedly illiberal democracy, to advise them on their democratic rights? You'd be a walking oxymoron. The unwritten UK constitution is also clearly very different from Singapore's written one so it would be hard to directly apply your knowledge to the Singapore context, assuming you decide to return.



You're kidding. Definitely not in London. City law firms are renowned for their long hours.

If you weren't thinking of joining a City firm, my question would be - do regional firms hire many foreigners? (I'm really asking. I've never come across a Singaporean practising in a regional firm).
thank you for the compliment.

to answer your points, I did not decide to do law to just make money. The UK syllabus is really amazing. the uni that im at fuses both politics and law so i get a really good mix. i do intend to go into finance but i don mind doing human rights work. if i practice in SG I would still maintain this mixture cos 3 out of the 5 international firms i hope to get into
have this areas of practice. whether or not they choose to implement this in the SG office is another topic for another day. but to give you a short summary it can be done if i do possess the right qualifications and convince them to have a department that attends to these types of cases. who's to say it can't happen? i have belief. i've always had the belief.

let me tell you. if you're a UK law grad and you want to work in UK, you can. you need the right skill sets and additional qualities. maybe london is where the money is. but if you try hard enough you can get into the regional firms. it boils down to how much you want it and the lengths you're willing to go to achieve your ambition.

with regards to your point about the differences in constitution etc. that's all just cosmetic excuses. the fact that i as a newbie entered this forum, said what i said and got a few riled up clearly shows one thing. if you ask the right questions, you get the right reactions. imagine if i were to question the top man why there are so many problems in the system. just imagine.

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  #913 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:42 PM
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Erm can we just ignore Pippa he's departing further and further away from this topic. We get it Pippa you're amazing, smart, handsome, get the girls, and all that. Thanks for your wonderful contributions to this thread.

Btw earlier on some guy asked about the retention rates this year. Any associates/trainees at firms care to weigh in? Of course I'm not asking you to reveal what firm you come from or heard the news from. Just wondering what the rough numbers are like.

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  #914 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:56 PM
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Erm can we just ignore Pippa he's departing further and further away from this topic. We get it Pippa you're amazing, smart, handsome, get the girls, and all that. Thanks for your wonderful contributions to this thread.

Btw earlier on some guy asked about the retention rates this year. Any associates/trainees at firms care to weigh in? Of course I'm not asking you to reveal what firm you come from or heard the news from. Just wondering what the rough numbers are like.
Retention in my firm (big 4) seems the same as last year. Not good, but not exceptionally crap either. Several associates tendered/left recently so it is no surprise that we need to retain to replace these associates.
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  #915 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2016, 11:58 PM
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Eh Pippa.. Start working then talk ok. Any fresh grads considering in house?
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  #916 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippa View Post
Let me guess. in all of your time in uk, you stayed in your little dorm room the size of a HDB storeroom, you never ventured out cos you dislike the cold weather, you stayed indoors and blasted the heater to give you the 'SG' feel, you felt small around the british and other European nationalities, you went berserk when you saw China guys with white girls, you went bonkers when you saw nigerian guys with white girls, you went through the roof when you saw Pakistani guys with the PRC girls and just when you thought all hope was gone, you caught sight of the Malaysian student society and so you infiltrated that organisation in the hope that at least you could exercise your weight over them given the strong SG currency and other Number 1s that SG is never short off but the Malaysian Society told you exactly where to go and you ended up right where you started 'in that little dorm room the size of a HDB storeroom.'

I don't fit the typical SG mould. I broke out of it a long time ago. thats why dating wise I'm doing good, social life is also good and chances of getting a training contract is strong cos i have additional strong points.

come to think of it, you should have just stayed put in SG. why waste your time and parents money travelling to another part of the world only to retain the SG mentality and mix around with the same old group of people that you could very well have mixed with if you had stayed put in the first place?

you graduated as a lawyer but you chose to hide in your office. What a waste. All that UK knowledge down the drain
Haha oh dear what a nutcase
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  #917 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 12:48 PM
Unregistered
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Eh Pippa.. Start working then talk ok. Any fresh grads considering in house?
hmm i think many of us are still fixated on trying to get a tc and, at the very least, pass the bar. are there many companies out there willing to employ fresh grads who haven't passed the bar?
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  #918 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 02:10 PM
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hmm i think many of us are still fixated on trying to get a tc and, at the very least, pass the bar. are there many companies out there willing to employ fresh grads who haven't passed the bar?
Unlikely. Most companies looking for in-house counsel look for candidates who are around 3 - 5 PQE.
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  #919 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 03:03 PM
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Erm can we just ignore Pippa he's departing further and further away from this topic. We get it Pippa you're amazing, smart, handsome, get the girls, and all that. Thanks for your wonderful contributions to this thread.
Listening to Pippa speak really reminds me of someone. Pippa, this is not against you. You can really do whatever with you life, whether it'll be in UK or SG.

Do you all remember that girl, some rocker chick, in national day last year made a video saying how Australia is much better than Singapore, and that she's gonna f*** off Singapore and move to Australia.

Hmmm ... I wonder how's her progress. Anyone remember her name? The last time I tried to find her blog, I couldn't.

To all those who prefer country XXX to Singapore, make damn sure you make your move out of Singapore when you say it. Again, Pippa, nothing against you.
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  #920 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:03 PM
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Unlikely. Most companies looking for in-house counsel look for candidates who are around 3 - 5 PQE.
That's true. I haven't heard of any fresh grads hired as in house counsels. In house have plenty of candidates to pick from. Happy to hear if anyone knows of fresh grads hired in house, esp local fresh grads.
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