Lawyer Salary

://.todayonline.com/singapore/fresh-law-grads-feeling-squeeze-weak-economy-and-competition


://.todayonline.com/singapore/law-students-graduates-look-outside-sector-jobs


Glut highlighted in today's papers.

UK syllabus is way easier to score as compared to local syllabus...

with the forthcoming glut.. quality v quantity case.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This guy sibei funny sia!!! Wonder whose bias is more apparent LOL.

you sia sia no wonder they asking us to dumb down our spoken english in the local courts and use simple english and simple sentences. i mean how can you ask us to do this when we are studying towards a UK law degree/gotten a UK law degree and/or sat for the UK Bar or sitting for it?

aiyo tolong la. don like this leh. ke yi ma?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

://.todayonline.com/singapore/fresh-law-grads-feeling-squeeze-weak-economy-and-competition


://.todayonline.com/singapore/law-students-graduates-look-outside-sector-jobs


Glut highlighted in today's papers.

I'm not surprised. Two years ago at the UK-SG law student society, each and every panel member including the guest of honour told us more than 30 times than we should be looking to gain employment in Vietnam, Cambodia, China and anywhere else except Singapore.

i found it weird that they would all be singing the same tune. thank goodness im not close minded and that i've set my sights on gaining work in the UK. I get to keep my pink IC, enjoy life in the UK which has a really good work/family balance and get to live and breathe democracy, UK styled.

Originally Posted by Pippa

I'm not surprised. Two years ago at the UK-SG law student society, each and every panel member including the guest of honour told us more than 30 times than we should be looking to gain employment in Vietnam, Cambodia, China and anywhere else except Singapore.

i found it weird that they would all be singing the same tune. thank goodness im not close minded and that i've set my sights on gaining work in the UK. I get to keep my pink IC, enjoy life in the UK which has a really good work/family balance and get to live and breathe democracy, UK styled.

If you're set on working there all the best to you. But it's wrong to say the uk Uni being removed has anything to do with all the public law teaching - because (a) they actually increased the number of Uni previously and (b) very few of those Lawyers in Singapore doing public law work - you can Guess who - graduated from UK. Vast majority of those studying in UK are upper middle class and unlikely to start subversive activities in Singapore. Pls don't mistake all the so called critical questioning in the dialogues - that's just called being young, idealistic and immature. Wait a few years when the students all have jobs, realise how tough life can be, and see whether they still say the same things. The real reason is about quality and quantity.

Also even with the oversupply it's still easier to get a job in sg compared to solicitor contact in UK - just look at the numbers. And most people can't even dream of barrister seat.

So I'm glad u r so happy with Dicey and co., but not relevant to the schedule.

Pippa sounds like someone who tried his very best to get into local unis, failed to get in, got into an overseas one, and is now just being really sore about being rejected. Oh well. Not sure if we need people like him in this forum. I think people here are more concerned about the LOCAL job market, and not some irrelevant guy shooting his mouth off and attempting to talk down to everyone just to satisfy his bruised ego.

Anyway, anyone have any solid information about the retention rate this year? I hear that many big and mid sized firms are slashing like mad. Small firms appear to be the best bet for retention in 2016.

Originally Posted by Pippa

i found it weird that they would all be singing the same tune. thank goodness im not close minded and that i've set my sights on gaining work in the UK. I get to keep my pink IC, enjoy life in the UK which has a really good work/family balance and get to live and breathe democracy, UK styled.

...

Most SG law students in local unis have no interest to read around the subject let alone read 'lots of academic commentaries criticising the SG system'. All they want to do is get their hands on suggested answers so that they can replicate and regurgitate it in the exams. many of them want to go into finance after they graduate. they couldn't care less about representing ordinary citizens for free especially in areas of civil liberties and so on.

...

but the UK law syllabus is different. in areas of constitutional law, everything is out in the open. it's such an eye-opener and very rewarding in terms gaining the knowledge contained within the british syllabus. you will learn several new mind boggling concepts and you will ask yourself repeatedly till you go hoarse 'what the hell is happening in singapore'.

This is insanely idealistic. Seriously, good luck with that.

I graduated a few years back from a university in the UK that's arguably considered prestigious (it remains on the approved list, so make an educated guess) and I know of no more than 10 classmates from my batch who made it as solicitors / barristers. They were:

(1) mostly British - locals are definitely favoured over international applicants.
(2) graduated with first class honours (those who did with 2:1 were all outstanding, award-winning mooters, wrote for the law review, etc.)
(3) aggressively networking from the first year of law school and marketing themselves to representatives from law firms.
(4) very nice, friendly, and personable in general (at least that was my impression of them)

If you're looking for a place in the UK I'd say the odds are stacked against you because first, statistically as a Singaporean, you are basically up against talented and qualified British graduates; you need to be more outstanding than them. I don't know you but from your language skills and the way you put your points across (I'll elaborate on this below) - I don't think that this is the case here. I also don't think you know how much worse the market in the UK is, there are many, many more law schools and only so few places in law firms. What makes you think that anyone will hire you?

More importantly you sound like your head is up in the clouds and I'd make an educated guess - even if you do manage to squeeze into a law firm nobody would really like you there. It's not just your view on the UK syllabus vs. the Singapore syllabus - it's the way you put your opinion across - you put on an air of self-righteousness which is definitely unwarranted considering the fact that you are only a university student with little experience in the real world. It's okay to have a differing view, but it should be put across thoughtfully and not in the sarcastic, condescending tone that you have adopted that has pissed so many people off.

I don't purport to be an expert in life (I'm currently only a second-year associate... What do I know? Lol) but I've seen trainees and associates come and go because the partners in the firm thought they were arrogant dicks. Believe me, it matters a lot more than you think it is.

But anyway, if your UK dreams fall apart (which I'm quite sure they will) you sound like you can come to Singapore and be a constitutional lawyer whose best argument is "THE COURTS ARE BIASED! WHAT A KANGAROO COURT! LOOK AT THE UK! DICEY DICEY DICEY! WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A LEGAL SYSTEM LIKE THE UK! THE PAP SUCKS!"

You get my drift.

Originally Posted by Pippa

...All I ever said was that in areas like constitutional and administrative law, public law, english legal system etc, UK unis are an ideal choice to study at...

but the UK law syllabus is different. in areas of constitutional law, everything is out in the open. it's such an eye-opener and very rewarding in terms gaining the knowledge contained within the british syllabus. you will learn several new mind boggling concepts and you will ask yourself repeatedly till you go hoarse 'what the hell is happening in singapore'.

I think it's actually great that you've taken such an interest in these topics. The legal profession is usually perceived as being cold and hard-nosed - we could always use a dose of idealism.

But I would just suggest absorbing a bit of pragmatism as well. These are not areas that get you employed so there's no point going on about how these areas are so wonderful. No UK firm would hire you to advise on these issues. Why would any self-respecting Englishman engage a Singaporean, from an admittedly illiberal democracy, to advise them on their democratic rights? You'd be a walking oxymoron. The unwritten UK constitution is also clearly very different from Singapore's written one so it would be hard to directly apply your knowledge to the Singapore context, assuming you decide to return.

Originally Posted by Pippa

...enjoy life in the UK which has a really good work/family balance...

You're kidding. Definitely not in London. City law firms are renowned for their long hours.

If you weren't thinking of joining a City firm, my question would be - do regional firms hire many foreigners? (I'm really asking. I've never come across a Singaporean practising in a regional firm).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you're set on working there all the best to you. But it's wrong to say the uk Uni being removed has anything to do with all the public law teaching - because (a) they actually increased the number of Uni previously and (b) very few of those Lawyers in Singapore doing public law work - you can Guess who - graduated from UK. Vast majority of those studying in UK are upper middle class and unlikely to start subversive activities in Singapore. Pls don't mistake all the so called critical questioning in the dialogues - that's just called being young, idealistic and immature. Wait a few years when the students all have jobs, realise how tough life can be, and see whether they still say the same things. The real reason is about quality and quantity.

Also even with the oversupply it's still easier to get a job in sg compared to solicitor contact in UK - just look at the numbers. And most people can't even dream of barrister seat.

So I'm glad u r so happy with Dicey and co., but not relevant to the schedule.

hi yes. im definitely set on working in the UK upon graduation. Many people have done it. A growing number have vanished without trace from SG. They're just happy to be living the life in a democratic country.

No lawyer apart from the very small few have the guts to actually do public law work in SG. They don't have the necessary knowledge in the UK sense. Come on. Don't tell me you don't know this.

there is a growing number of students who do not have N, O or A levels yet still became a lawyer. they did a foundation course which allowed them to gain entry into the uni for the LLB. many of them have settled in UK. Some of them are in the midst of bringing the parents and siblings over. I know cos I speak to them.

critical thinking is non-existent in SG. the education system is controlled. which is why if you went to RI today, camped outside the school and ask the students leaving for home, what is the meaning of their understanding of democracy, they would look at you in an odd way.

the problem i think in SG is that many of the fresh law grads are aiming for the top 4, top 8 or top 12 firms. if they went to a smalled sized firm they would learn a lot. cos more attention would be given to them.

I'm not really into dicey. More of a Lord Bingham, Richard Jago and Sir Ivor Jennings kinda guy

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Pippa sounds like someone who tried his very best to get into local unis, failed to get in, got into an overseas one, and is now just being really sore about being rejected. Oh well. Not sure if we need people like him in this forum. I think people here are more concerned about the LOCAL job market, and not some irrelevant guy shooting his mouth off and attempting to talk down to everyone just to satisfy his bruised ego.

Anyway, anyone have any solid information about the retention rate this year? I hear that many big and mid sized firms are slashing like mad. Small firms appear to be the best bet for retention in 2016.

i never ever thought of applying to local schools. i've only gone through british education. obviously the next stage was to apply to a UK uni.