Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yes but odds are low. I know who you're talking about

Wah! Now got more than 2 SG people there? Nice!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I went to one of those schools mentioned above.

My suggestion is to take SMU. You have maybe a 30% chance if you go to UCL, not because you're not good, but because you're Asian and it takes a certain type to work there. Your traineeship takes 2 years as opposed to 6 months if you take SMU.

Post taxes and expenses pay is meh. I believe it's 40% tax for 100k GBP and above. This consensus was held amongst many of my peers, some of whom have gone on to work in MC/US and live there. What are you going to tell your family on being abroad for 5 - 7 years?

Is it really worth the struggle? Is it worth 200K (enough to buy a pretty decent house) on a single person? I mean, if you do medicine, sure. But not law.

If I could rewind time, part of me wishes I didn't choose 'prestige' over money. Remember, they're selling a brand.

Agree. I heard from my smu senior that in her batch (should be 3y pqe level), at least 5 people made it to white shoe/mc/sc firms and one who went in-house in a mega tech company is drawing MC rates.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Agree. I heard from my smu senior that in her batch (should be 3y pqe level), at least 5 people made it to white shoe/mc/sc firms and one who went in-house in a mega tech company is drawing MC rates.

Yeah, and even more if you count the JD batch. That said, I don't think its unique to SMU as I know quite a few NUS folks in the same batch at MCs too.

Originally Posted by ABCD1234

What do you mean by "you're asian and it takes a certain type to work there"?

I would like to hear what the 'certain type' is as well.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey guys, would a legal education be better locally or overseas if cost isn't a problem? I'm leaning more towards UCL at the moment but apprehensive about having to take both part A and B of the local bar exam should I return to SG upon graduation. Can anyone shed some light on the likelihood of staying in London/UK to work, and how career prospects compare to SG's? Thanks!

It's definitely not easy, but it's by no means as impossible as many make it out to be. As the years go on there are increasing numbers of Singaporean students receiving offers from firms in London.

In the London recruitment framework, there is an increasing emphasis on diverse hirings, resulting in the importance of university "prestige" being increasingly less relevant. One is by no means significantly disadvantaged by going to LSE/UCL (or even Durham, Warwick, Bristol etc.) as opposed to Oxbridge. Once you are a student in a good university (deemed by UK recruiters) performing decently in university exams, academic ability is presumed. The difficulty then comes in the other aspects of the recruitment process which firms value heavily.

The general view of UK firms is that you don't need to be an academic superstar to be a good commercial lawyer (although it never hurts to be academically brilliant). Academic ability is valued to a certain extent (much lesser than Singapore firms), but so are other qualities tested through the multi-layered assessment system such as soft skills, commercial fluency, application writing etc. The biggest challenge facing Singaporean students in the London employment market is being able to demonstrate well-roundedness, as well as confidence and personability in interview/networking settings.

I can only speak from the perspective of someone commencing my TC in London (welcome other opinions). I personally don't believe that there will be any substantial difference in terms of quality of technical training between London and Singapore. Whilst I'll be accepting less money than if I worked for the same firm in SG, I saw long-term value in starting my career in London for the world-class deal exposure, opportunity to work with a more diverse range of colleagues and clients, and transferability to other jurisdictions from the mothership office.

Whether the cost of education is worth the chances of getting a TC is a difficult question and hinges on a variety of factors. Being in UCL however, will put you in a great position and so long as you're willing to word hard and put yourself out there, it is definitely achievable (excluding impact of Corona on the economy and legal market).

Poster above is more or less correct.

However, if you’re from Oxbridge it’s almost a shoo-in for these Mc and white shoe London firms.

I’m from Oxbridge and I have friends from LSE, UCL (straight As students) but many of them from UCL, LSE and the lower tiers end up returning to Singapore because they try and try and they can’t get a London TC.

A certain professor from Oxbridge said before that the brand equity attached to Oxbridge stays with you for life. That said, a number of my Oxbridge friends do return to Singapore after graduation out of respect for their aging parents.

A majority of MC and white shoe hire from Oxbridge (50-60% of the fee earners from those firms comprise of individuals with that storied pedigree). Just go and research.

Agreed there are some expats with first degrees from India, Thailand, Hong Kong etc but they always never fail to do a graduate LLM at Oxbridge or Harvard.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Best chance is to be from big 4, SLB or the hybrid MBFC I firm. If at a tier below, then go get uk bar to increase competitiveness of app.

What do you mean by UK Bar?
Do the BPTC, get called by the inns and be a barrister?
Or you mean qualify as a solicitor?

solicitor lpc. a lot of peers nowadays doing the qlts for non-uk degree holders. solicitor firms need lpc/qlts. if u bptc only (and i think if no pupillage) u atm paralegal only. its not sufficient and also not the right qualification.

bptc not sure how useful anw. almost no sinkies doing it. 99.9% of tng lang at the inns of court are msians, cos its much easier than their own msian bar for overseas grads back home (the part a/b equivalent for msia, cant remember what its called now). the pass rate fking low, a lot of them suspect its that bumi nonsense, dunno how true. cos if i remember correctly if u local grad from university of malaya etc u exempted from taking their bar, u will be auto call after 9 mths of pupillage.

but digressing. like the only people here u see with BARRISTER-AT-LAW, INNER TEMPLE are literally from like lky or jbj that era lol, run into one in court can go buy toto liao. literally only know 1 sinkie who did bptc and he now practise as barrister in chambers in london. but he got ba juris and bcl la. if u all thought u atas af with ur raffles and hwach, u all try applying for chambers pupillage in london. nobody does elitist better than the brits

Originally Posted by Unregistered

solicitor lpc. a lot of peers nowadays doing the qlts for non-uk degree holders. solicitor firms need lpc/qlts. if u bptc only (and i think if no pupillage) u atm paralegal only. its not sufficient and also not the right qualification.

bptc not sure how useful anw. almost no sinkies doing it. 99.9% of tng lang at the inns of court are msians, cos its much easier than their own msian bar for overseas grads back home (the part a/b equivalent for msia, cant remember what its called now). the pass rate fking low, a lot of them suspect its that bumi nonsense, dunno how true. cos if i remember correctly if u local grad from university of malaya etc u exempted from taking their bar, u will be auto call after 9 mths of pupillage.

but digressing. like the only people here u see with BARRISTER-AT-LAW, INNER TEMPLE are literally from like lky or jbj that era lol, run into one in court can go buy toto liao. literally only know 1 sinkie who did bptc and he now practise as barrister in chambers in london. but he got ba juris and bcl la. if u all thought u atas af with ur raffles and hwach, u all try applying for chambers pupillage in london. nobody does elitist better than the brits

Harrow Eton Tonbridge or bust

Originally Posted by Unregistered

solicitor lpc. a lot of peers nowadays doing the qlts for non-uk degree holders. solicitor firms need lpc/qlts. if u bptc only (and i think if no pupillage) u atm paralegal only. its not sufficient and also not the right qualification.

bptc not sure how useful anw. almost no sinkies doing it. 99.9% of tng lang at the inns of court are msians, cos its much easier than their own msian bar for overseas grads back home (the part a/b equivalent for msia, cant remember what its called now). the pass rate fking low, a lot of them suspect its that bumi nonsense, dunno how true. cos if i remember correctly if u local grad from university of malaya etc u exempted from taking their bar, u will be auto call after 9 mths of pupillage.

but digressing. like the only people here u see with BARRISTER-AT-LAW, INNER TEMPLE are literally from like lky or jbj that era lol, run into one in court can go buy toto liao. literally only know 1 sinkie who did bptc and he now practise as barrister in chambers in london. but he got ba juris and bcl la. if u all thought u atas af with ur raffles and hwach, u all try applying for chambers pupillage in london. nobody does elitist better than the brits

OP just burst the bubble of a lot of aspiring hci and ri dudes who want to go on to become a barrister in the city of London.
But the observations are quite accurate.
Eton and Oxford the traditional blue blood pathway
Then one of the top tier barrister sets - think Blackstone, Fountain Court, 39 Essex, along those lines. Just looking at their barrister’s list is giddying. 95% have an Oxbridge degree.
These are feared litigators globally.