Lawyer Salary - Page 168 - Salary.sg Forums
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Income and Jobs

Income and Jobs Discuss jobs, career options and of course salaries




Lawyer Salary

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1671 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 02:07 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

First of all, most professionals looking for legal conversion are probably doing it out of pragmatism so I don't expect most JD aspirants to be financially independent and studying for a degree out of sheer vanity like myself.

Anyway, I caught up with some class-mates last night and we all agreed that our decision to take the SMU JD was not rational in hindsight. None of us would recommend this course to others for now.


://treeofprosperity.blogspot.com/2017/04/my-jd-aftermath-1-adult-education-and.html

Reply With Quote
  #1672 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:06 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Monthly:

Big 4 (local): $6400 to $9200 (0-3 PQE); up to $11,500 (5 PQE); $12,500-$13,500 (junior partner) + bonus 1-3 months

International (Magic circle UK): $14,000-$18,000 (0-3 PQE); $20,000-$22,000 (4-5 PQE); $23,000-$24,500 (6-7 PQE)
+ bonus 5-10%

International (non-MC UK): $9,000-$17,000 (0-3 PQE); $13,000-$21,500 (4-5 PQE)
+ bonus 5-10%

International (US): USD $15,000-$17,500 (0-3 PQE if NYC scale); USD $21,600 (5 PQE)
Usually no bonus

Mid tier (local): $4,500-$6,000 (0-3 PQE): $6,500-$8,000 (3-5 PQE); $10,000-$12,000 (above 5 PQE to JP)

Small: anything goes, between $3,500-$5,500 (0-3 PQE)

Source: combination of anecdotal, peers and seniors, & headhunters' salary guides.

How low is low is really up to the individual. Most of my friends won't go below $4,000 unless they're desperate. Depends on your circle of peers.

"Once you start low you remain low" only works in very small firms/solos when you negotiate salary with the sole prop/partners directly. If you join a bigger firm, its based on lock step, with perhaps -1/-2 years discount if you come in from an entirely unrelated practice area.
Thanks for posting but most of the information doesn't really matter because how many NUS/SMU law grads go directly into Cravath or International US firms/MC? You might get the odd one into CC (i.e. 1 or 2 every year but the vast 99.9% majority will go into local Big 4 type firms and even more into lower tier firms)

In fact, don't think I have seen anyone on linkedin who has made the jump from local undergrad into International US firms. Also in the US law is obv a post-graduate degree so USD180k is for those who spent 3 years getting their JD after their 4 year college course so 0PQE there is not the same as 0PQE at D&N for example.

Guys or law students here please don't be fooled by these numbers thinking you might be banking it in after you graduate. It literally is impossible (as in 0% chance).

Reply With Quote
  #1673 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:25 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for posting but most of the information doesn't really matter because how many NUS/SMU law grads go directly into Cravath or International US firms/MC? You might get the odd one into CC (i.e. 1 or 2 every year but the vast 99.9% majority will go into local Big 4 type firms and even more into lower tier firms)

In fact, don't think I have seen anyone on linkedin who has made the jump from local undergrad into International US firms. Also in the US law is obv a post-graduate degree so USD180k is for those who spent 3 years getting their JD after their 4 year college course so 0PQE there is not the same as 0PQE at D&N for example.

Guys or law students here please don't be fooled by these numbers thinking you might be banking it in after you graduate. It literally is impossible (as in 0% chance).
Absolutely agree. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that the local figures are overstated too. It is common knowledge for those in practice that very few 1st year assocs this year started with $6.4k.

I would suggest that students here check out the previous pages from this site - around March-June when associates were getting retention letters. It was even confirmed that one of the Big4s offered below $5k starting.

The numbers above should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

For the record, I also have not heard of undergrads transitioning straight into international firms (that are not JVCs) with such high starting pay.

Reply With Quote
  #1674 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:29 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
the figures look good

so why aren’t people staying in the industry?

I promise you, these figures are outdated, inflated and mostly irrelevant.


Primary School English Grammar and Vocabulary Drills
Primary School English Grammar and Vocabulary Drills


SG Bus Timing App
SG Bus Timing App - the best bus app - available on iOS and Android


Bursa Stocks Android App - check share prices
Bursa Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
SGX Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
SGX Stocks [iPad] app
| SGX Stocks [iPhone] app
Reply With Quote
  #1675 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:42 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you are at a Big 4 approaching the end of 3 years now with no sign of SA offer - Is that a bad sign?
Reply With Quote
  #1676 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:48 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If you are at a Big 4 approaching the end of 3 years now with no sign of SA offer - Is that a bad sign?
I know of assocs who weren't given a promotion in "title" but were given generous raises and bonuses. They were duly promoted when a space opened up - ie when an SA left (in order to keep the pyramid organisational structure).

But generally, if you're in a local firm, then yes.. bad sign.
Reply With Quote

  #1677 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 11:08 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Absolutely agree. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that the local figures are overstated too. It is common knowledge for those in practice that very few 1st year assocs this year started with $6.4k.

I would suggest that students here check out the previous pages from this site - around March-June when associates were getting retention letters. It was even confirmed that one of the Big4s offered below $5k starting.

The numbers above should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

For the record, I also have not heard of undergrads transitioning straight into international firms (that are not JVCs) with such high starting pay.
This year Big 4 seemed mostly to be paying about 5.6-6k. But less than 5k starting is a bit deceiving because that pay is for professional support associates and not "proper" associates. Bonus remains to be seen.

No one goes straight to the intl firms fresh out of school, but it is entirely possible to jump after a few years in a local firm.
Reply With Quote
  #1678 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 11:39 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
This year Big 4 seemed mostly to be paying about 5.6-6k. But less than 5k starting is a bit deceiving because that pay is for professional support associates and not "proper" associates. Bonus remains to be seen.

No one goes straight to the intl firms fresh out of school, but it is entirely possible to jump after a few years in a local firm.
I am the OP above and I think we agree on most points.

The numbers are still a little on the high side imo, but this is a significantly more accurate range than $6.4k starting.

I know the firm that officially introduced "Professional Support" assocs. There is another Big4 firm that has offered first years less than $5.6K that does not have this "class" of assocs - at least it is not blatantly stated for all to see.

I take your point though, on not being "proper" assocs. My guess is that they would not have been retained at all if circumstances were different.
Reply With Quote
  #1679 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 06:44 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for posting but most of the information doesn't really matter because how many NUS/SMU law grads go directly into Cravath or International US firms/MC? You might get the odd one into CC (i.e. 1 or 2 every year but the vast 99.9% majority will go into local Big 4 type firms and even more into lower tier firms)

In fact, don't think I have seen anyone on linkedin who has made the jump from local undergrad into International US firms. Also in the US law is obv a post-graduate degree so USD180k is for those who spent 3 years getting their JD after their 4 year college course so 0PQE there is not the same as 0PQE at D&N for example.

Guys or law students here please don't be fooled by these numbers thinking you might be banking it in after you graduate. It literally is impossible (as in 0% chance).
I'm the one who posted those figures.

Agree with you that the chances of your generic NUS and SMU fresh grad entering an international firm is next to nil since most don't hire straight out of our usual 4 year LLB prog. They give a 2 year discount for non US JD.

But very few doesn't mean none. The stats are what they are. 99% of business grads don't make it to bulge bracket investment banking or private equity either but the salaries for these are available in the local market.

NUS alone has a fair few who have made the jump after slogging it out 2-3 years at big 5-6. Being a small community we like to keep tabs on who is working at where and earning what

You'll be surprised how many US and UK firms have small offices here that hire 1 to 2 local qualified lawyers and pay them according to what they pay their people back home. These are not your usual high profile magic circle giants but they're quietly under the radar doing substantial transactions here.

I don't think anybody will disagree with you that the market is bad for fresh grads. I'm sure most will know to temper their expectations accordingly given the spate of lawyers leaving the law and oversupply newspaper articles running ad naseum
Reply With Quote
  #1680 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:25 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Agree that it's the 1%, but here's one from the 1%: s://.lw.com/people/jayanthi-sadanandan

Latham london's managing partner was from NUS.

Education
LLM, Harvard Law School, 1999
LL.B., National University of Singapore, 1995


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm the one who posted those figures.

Agree with you that the chances of your generic NUS and SMU fresh grad entering an international firm is next to nil since most don't hire straight out of our usual 4 year LLB prog. They give a 2 year discount for non US JD.

But very few doesn't mean none. The stats are what they are. 99% of business grads don't make it to bulge bracket investment banking or private equity either but the salaries for these are available in the local market.

NUS alone has a fair few who have made the jump after slogging it out 2-3 years at big 5-6. Being a small community we like to keep tabs on who is working at where and earning what

You'll be surprised how many US and UK firms have small offices here that hire 1 to 2 local qualified lawyers and pay them according to what they pay their people back home. These are not your usual high profile magic circle giants but they're quietly under the radar doing substantial transactions here.

I don't think anybody will disagree with you that the market is bad for fresh grads. I'm sure most will know to temper their expectations accordingly given the spate of lawyers leaving the law and oversupply newspaper articles running ad naseum
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
advocate, law, lawyer, legal, solicitor

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From Lawyer Insider: Life is Glamorous but Unsatisfying Salary.sg Income and Jobs 31 15-01-2018 12:40 PM

» 30 Recent Threads
Nparks ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
39 Replies, 34,282 Views
MAS for Mid Career Professionals ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,797 Replies, 1,043,164 Views
Career as Teacher ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
10,819 Replies, 6,662,418 Views
MINDEF DXO (All FAQ on it) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
5,828 Replies, 4,655,976 Views
ITE Polytechnic Scheme ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
309 Replies, 368,730 Views
Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
15,303 Replies, 4,981,914 Views
UOB Management Associate Program ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,454 Replies, 784,123 Views
Civil Service Performance Bonus ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
5,338 Replies, 4,768,183 Views
Compare civil service salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
16,342 Replies, 12,453,055 Views
Civil Service Current Estimated... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
169 Replies, 308,812 Views
LTA (Land Transport Authority) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
678 Replies, 388,011 Views
Constituency Manager (People... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
989 Replies, 813,770 Views
SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,920 Replies, 2,902,355 Views
Julius Baer Graduate Program 2023 ( 1 2 3)
21 Replies, 14,749 Views
Roles in accenture singapore ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
7,385 Replies, 2,323,359 Views
Lawyer Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
21,013 Replies, 10,327,936 Views
GovTech ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
5,159 Replies, 2,162,524 Views
HTX (Home Team Science and... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
752 Replies, 358,066 Views
Shopee fresh grad pay ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,049 Replies, 440,377 Views
DSTA (under Mindef) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,464 Replies, 1,374,860 Views
ST Electronics ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,767 Replies, 1,544,145 Views
IMDA (under MCI) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,260 Replies, 613,346 Views
Civil Svc/ Statboard - Typical... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,123 Replies, 3,738,167 Views
MX12 reappointed at MX11
8 Replies, 766 Views
Hospital (Private or Public)... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
749 Replies, 405,214 Views
NCS (SingTel subsidiary) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,329 Replies, 1,141,786 Views
MFA- Foreign Service... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
54 Replies, 84,926 Views
Cybersecurity/Info security career ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
511 Replies, 268,364 Views
Visa Graduate Development Program ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
206 Replies, 134,446 Views
Singapore Airlines ( 1 2 3)
22 Replies, 11,264 Views
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2