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  #7551 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:26 PM
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Don't miss the forest for the trees. The situation is very grim. Do not be deceived by de minimis manpower demand that can barely soak up a drop in an ocean of supply.
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Don't miss the forest for the trees. The situation is very grim. Do not be deceived by de minimis manpower demand that can barely soak up a drop in an ocean of supply.
Mind explaining how grim the situation is in detail pertaining to corporate law? Yes, we have heard enough about the grim economic outlook and the oversupply of graduates even across many other industries. I myself have not felt the direct impact of the economy yet; was expecting a pay cut for myself but no news about that so far.

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  #7552 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:39 PM
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Mind explaining how grim the situation is in detail pertaining to corporate law? Yes, we have heard enough about the grim economic outlook and the oversupply of graduates even across many other industries. I myself have not felt the direct impact of the economy yet; was expecting a pay cut for myself but no news about that so far.
The situation is grim yes, but whether it impacts you really depends on your firm, its size, your area of practice, etc.

Speaking as a big 4 assoc in a tier 1 corporate department, my dept has felt 0 slowdown in work since covid till now. As a dept, billables are better this year than last year at the same time.

However, I also know that small - medium firms are getting decimated. So, it really depends. But nobody can dispute that the economy, or the legal industry as a whole, is not doing well.

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  #7553 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:57 PM
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I advise onlookers here to take the content at this forum here with a pinch of salt and with prudence.

Iím speaking as someone with 3PQE at a big four and I can confidently say that most deals and matters have yet to stop. Iím sure even for smaller firms, they are still being kept busy because honestly deals are still going through. I have however heard that other big fours, even for mine, and many firms are on a hiring freeze mainly because the firms want to hedge the uncertainty of manpower in light of the economic uncertainty. However, my advise is that one should not see this situation as totally grim. There are still teams requiring manpower because work has simply not slowed down in any ways (fortunate or unfortunate, to each their own).

In a broader perspective, I think law is becoming increasingly competitive because economy has slowed down even before COVID. Employability in law is dependent on the general business activities. However, this is not a all-grim situation because there ARE still plenty of opportunities out there for graduates. Whilst I wouldnít advise my niece/nephews to study law but perhaps computer science, I would still encourage people who are already in the industry to hang tight and continue looking for opportunities. Nothing in this world comes easy.
Are you really from a B4 firm?
You write pretty poorly.

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  #7554 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:07 PM
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Too bad humji kias here including myself don't dare to name and shame firms. Let's start off with the sh!t firms do:
1. Abusive toxic workplace in breach or borderline in breach of MOM laws.
2. Slave firms taking advantage of glut for free or underpaid intern / trainees or getting paid instead.
3. Nepotism and guanxi firms.
4. Firms hiring cheap foreign lawyers/paralegals e.g. Malaysian called to advise on local law under the guise of a "consultant"
5. Firms which have undertable referral fee arrangement with other law firms and/or non-law firms e.g. car workshops
...

Re point 4, I've always wondered how said firms get away with it.

Wouldn't competitors whistle blow?
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  #7555 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:13 PM
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Re point 4, I've always wondered how said firms get away with it.

Wouldn't competitors whistle blow?
Nah cuz most law firms benefit from open leg foreign policy and cheap labour. That's why many paralegals and secretaries are foreigners (usually Malaysian, Pinoys and Indians, some are even law grads or lawyers in their own country), lesser and lesser aunties and virtually no young locals.

Have you ever wondered why your boomer partner can drive flash cars and live in bungalows, while the trainees working till 2am get a miserable $1k with no guaranteed retention?
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  #7556 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:09 AM
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I am going to resign by end august. Screw my abusive boss he can **** himself
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  #7557 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:17 AM
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I am going to resign by end august. Screw my abusive boss he can **** himself
Yeah think carefully though. Itís hard to find a job now
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  #7558 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:53 AM
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I advise onlookers here to take the content at this forum here with a pinch of salt and with prudence.

Iím speaking as someone with 3PQE at a big four and I can confidently say that most deals and matters have yet to stop. Iím sure even for smaller firms, they are still being kept busy because honestly deals are still going through. I have however heard that other big fours, even for mine, and many firms are on a hiring freeze mainly because the firms want to hedge the uncertainty of manpower in light of the economic uncertainty. However, my advise is that one should not see this situation as totally grim. There are still teams requiring manpower because work has simply not slowed down in any ways (fortunate or unfortunate, to each their own).

In a broader perspective, I think law is becoming increasingly competitive because economy has slowed down even before COVID. Employability in law is dependent on the general business activities. However, this is not a all-grim situation because there ARE still plenty of opportunities out there for graduates. Whilst I wouldnít advise my niece/nephews to study law but perhaps computer science, I would still encourage people who are already in the industry to hang tight and continue looking for opportunities. Nothing in this world comes easy.
PQE 6 (man, this sounds so awks to say) at a non big4 law firm. I profit share. The big bulk of our work is litigation (in particular, building and construction) with a mix of simple corp/commercial matters.

(1) Different firms (and different tiers of firms) will be affected in different ways. This means that the big4 perspective does not represent the entirety of the industry. The best thing you can do as an incoming NQ is to have a balance of view across firms/tiers to have a more balanced perspective of the industry as a whole. My views as a non big4 are as follows.

(2) Big companies are taking longer to involve law firms. Where they would involve us right at the beginning of a potential dispute pre-covid, they now tend to handle a lot more pre-litigation matters in-house (esp if they have an in-house legal counsel). When they do come to us, most of these big companies have demanded discounts on rates/agreed fees.

(3) We are at a standstill with regards to new building and construction litigation matters. This is mainly due to the Covid-19 temporary relief measures. We are lucky that we have ongoing matters which can sustain us for the rest of the year. We do not expect any juicy new matters until after the 6 months time frame expires.

(4) We continue to receive the same volume of adjudication matters (SOPA) as our pre covid-19 days and this is another source of revenue that has helped to sustain us thus far.

(5) We were expecting a big increase in family work - this has not happened. There has been no change in terms of volume. This could be due to the fact that family is not our specialization and it is not what we are known for.

(6) We have seen an increase in debt collection matters.

(7) We have seen an increase in SMEs seeking corp/com advisory work (mostly involving restructuring of small group businesses).

We did not retain any of our trainees this year. We made this decision due to economic uncertainty (what big4 dude said about hedging). Instead, we offered our trainees the option of carrying on as legal execs (low pay) if they were willing to ride out the covid situation with us.

We will be in a better position to offer retention after the 6 months time frame expires. We also told them that they can continue job-hunting while working with us as legal execs and leave with 3 days notice if they find work with another firm.

None of our trainees accepted. We did not ask why.

I know that a few of my batch mates in other non big4 firms have offered the same arrangement to the trainees they could not retain. I understand that not many trainees have taken up their offers as well.
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  #7559 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:03 AM
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PQE 6 (man, this sounds so awks to say) at a non big4 law firm. I profit share. The big bulk of our work is litigation (in particular, building and construction) with a mix of simple corp/commercial matters.

(1) Different firms (and different tiers of firms) will be affected in different ways. This means that the big4 perspective does not represent the entirety of the industry. The best thing you can do as an incoming NQ is to have a balance of view across firms/tiers to have a more balanced perspective of the industry as a whole. My views as a non big4 are as follows.

(2) Big companies are taking longer to involve law firms. Where they would involve us right at the beginning of a potential dispute pre-covid, they now tend to handle a lot more pre-litigation matters in-house (esp if they have an in-house legal counsel). When they do come to us, most of these big companies have demanded discounts on rates/agreed fees.

(3) We are at a standstill with regards to new building and construction litigation matters. This is mainly due to the Covid-19 temporary relief measures. We are lucky that we have ongoing matters which can sustain us for the rest of the year. We do not expect any juicy new matters until after the 6 months time frame expires.

(4) We continue to receive the same volume of adjudication matters (SOPA) as our pre covid-19 days and this is another source of revenue that has helped to sustain us thus far.

(5) We were expecting a big increase in family work - this has not happened. There has been no change in terms of volume. This could be due to the fact that family is not our specialization and it is not what we are known for.

(6) We have seen an increase in debt collection matters.

(7) We have seen an increase in SMEs seeking corp/com advisory work (mostly involving restructuring of small group businesses).

We did not retain any of our trainees this year. We made this decision due to economic uncertainty (what big4 dude said about hedging). Instead, we offered our trainees the option of carrying on as legal execs (low pay) if they were willing to ride out the covid situation with us.

We will be in a better position to offer retention after the 6 months time frame expires. We also told them that they can continue job-hunting while working with us as legal execs and leave with 3 days notice if they find work with another firm.

None of our trainees accepted. We did not ask why.

I know that a few of my batch mates in other non big4 firms have offered the same arrangement to the trainees they could not retain. I understand that not many trainees have taken up their offers as well.
Sounds like your firm is trying its best to do right by your employees, good for you! Am also a little baffled as to why your trainees did not accept, sounds like a great deal that allows them to have no break in employment.
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  #7560 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:12 AM
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Sounds like your firm is trying its best to do right by your employees, good for you! Am also a little baffled as to why your trainees did not accept, sounds like a great deal that allows them to have no break in employment.
Because they got a job at big4
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