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  #691 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2016, 11:11 AM
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Anyway the talk about how much easier it is to get a first / 2:1 overseas can finally be put to rest. Dean of NUS law school has said that it will become easier to get a first/2:1 from this batch onwards.
So finally, all the disputes on this forum can be finally put to rest.
Just wondering though, will JLC requirements still be a top 5% or a top 10%?
The NUS move should be seen in context. The reason it's easier to attain honours overseas is because the grading policy for each module is less strict (e.g. some schools do not impose a bell curve). What NUS is doing is to relax the honours requirement while maintaining a strict grading policy. This won't help students that much since given the tight competition for TCs, many firms now look at an applicant's grades rather than his/her class of honours.

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  #692 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2016, 03:54 PM
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The NUS move should be seen in context. The reason it's easier to attain honours overseas is because the grading policy for each module is less strict (e.g. some schools do not impose a bell curve). What NUS is doing is to relax the honours requirement while maintaining a strict grading policy. This won't help students that much since given the tight competition for TCs, many firms now look at an applicant's grades rather than his/her class of honours.
Grading without a bell curve does not mean it is less strict. That depends on the marking standard doesn't it.

A bell curve makes exams more competitive but it does not relate to the individual peformance of a particular candidate.

The focus overseas in on maximising one's potential, while the focus in NUS is to rise among your peers. The reason why many think NUS will always be better (I feel) is because of the Asian "my child is smarter than your child" way of looking at life. It may be a simplistic view, but it does resonate with each country's culture.

Granted NUS only takes in the smartest of each cohort and the bell curve makes examinations there very brutal.

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  #693 (permalink)  
Old 24-03-2016, 01:59 PM
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Grading without a bell curve does not mean it is less strict. That depends on the marking standard doesn't it.

A bell curve makes exams more competitive but it does not relate to the individual peformance of a particular candidate.

The focus overseas in on maximising one's potential, while the focus in NUS is to rise among your peers. The reason why many think NUS will always be better (I feel) is because of the Asian "my child is smarter than your child" way of looking at life. It may be a simplistic view, but it does resonate with each country's culture.

Granted NUS only takes in the smartest of each cohort and the bell curve makes examinations there very brutal.
whether one maximises one's potential is a personal choice that can be done in singapore or overseas.

People on this forum seem to like to paint overseas graduate as more exposed and NUS /Local grads as plain academics. But the truth of the matter is that an overseas education does not equal maximising one's potential. The truth of the matter is there are many overseas graduate who went there just for the degree and some maintain a singapore lifestyle all through their undergraduate years. Of course those who went overseas for the experience, making that deliberate decision will have a likelier chance to maximise one's potential.

So really, it is silly that people on this forum keep playing up the overseas education and that everyone who goes overseas has the same great experience of maximising one's potential. Sad truth is that there are a large number of people who went over to get a degree.

For those who still don't believe in this, I challenge you to go read up on local graduates who are national sports athletes at the elite level while balancing their studies.(just one of the many examples_ If these people are not maximising one's potential , then I don't know what is.

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  #694 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2016, 05:29 PM
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I'm a junior associate at a reputable mid-sized local firm (got called in August 2015), got offered $5,000 upon call and this increased to $5,500 in January. My peers are earning more or less the same as I am, save for those in Big 4 firms who earn $500 - $1,000 (A&G) more.

I personally feel that all the posters in this forum who purport be experts in "SG Grads in general" and "Overseas Grads in general" have gotten it all wrong. From experience, it's difficult to tell if you will be successful in practice based on the school you went to or grades you got alone. Practice is really very multi-faceted and as a junior associate you will realise, and this is doubly true if you are in a Big 4 firm, that most of your day consists of highly time-consuming menial activities (e.g. drafting chaser letters, document review for discovery, etc). Also, people are unreasonable - and that extends to the bosses, colleagues, clients, secretaries, trainees of the firm and sometimes what guarantees your survival as a lawyer in the firm is how you can balance the interaction and relationships between everyone in the firm. Also, the stress. Not everyone from a good university with good grades can deal with it - it all boils down to the level of resilience present in each individual.

By the way, there were trainees in my batch from NUS Law who didn't get retained as associates but people who were from lower-ranked universities who did. Of course there were NUS Law graduates who did as well but my point is, there isn't a set pattern that you can subscribe to and make general assertions about which is better than the other.

Humility, people. Also, hiring partners hate cocky arrogant people.
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  #695 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:58 AM
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I'm a junior associate at a reputable mid-sized local firm (got called in August 2015), got offered $5,000 upon call and this increased to $5,500 in January. My peers are earning more or less the same as I am, save for those in Big 4 firms who earn $500 - $1,000 (A&G) more.
Well said.

Are those figures including front load, or does your firm not practise that anymore?
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  #696 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2016, 02:53 PM
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Well said.

Are those figures including front load, or does your firm not practise that anymore?
Yes the figures include (approximately) 2 months' bonus front loaded into the monthly pay. Typically associates at my firm get about 4-5 months' bonus at the end of the year depending on performance, so we still get a net 2-3 month bonus.

I've heard that some bigger firms front load more per month so the monthly pay is more but it all works out to be the same (i.e. 4 months' pay is front loaded but 5 months' bonus declared, so you only get 1 months' pay at the end of the year).


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  #697 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2016, 11:53 PM
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Yes the figures include (approximately) 2 months' bonus front loaded into the monthly pay. Typically associates at my firm get about 4-5 months' bonus at the end of the year depending on performance, so we still get a net 2-3 month bonus.

I've heard that some bigger firms front load more per month so the monthly pay is more but it all works out to be the same (i.e. 4 months' pay is front loaded but 5 months' bonus declared, so you only get 1 months' pay at the end of the year).
when do assocs break $100k total comp?

(let's say year of call = Year 1)


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  #698 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2016, 11:52 AM
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I'm a junior associate at a reputable mid-sized local firm (got called in August 2015), got offered $5,000 upon call and this increased to $5,500 in January. My peers are earning more or less the same as I am, save for those in Big 4 firms who earn $500 - $1,000 (A&G) more.
Oon and Bazul?
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  #699 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2016, 09:32 PM
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Yes the figures include (approximately) 2 months' bonus front loaded into the monthly pay. Typically associates at my firm get about 4-5 months' bonus at the end of the year depending on performance, so we still get a net 2-3 month bonus.

I've heard that some bigger firms front load more per month so the monthly pay is more but it all works out to be the same (i.e. 4 months' pay is front loaded but 5 months' bonus declared, so you only get 1 months' pay at the end of the year).
What's the annual increments like in the mid-sized and large firms? Is the bonus inclusive of the AWS?
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  #700 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 10:38 AM
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100k gross comp for an associate in a local firm I would guess about Year 5-6, or even later depending on the generosity of the firm. But 100k is probably easily hit by juniors at international firms (i.e. Not the artificial tie ups).

Increments probably range from 400 onwards. AWS is not a thing in the firms that I know.
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