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  #6441 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 08:51 AM
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Default Should I do a tc or stick to current job?

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Hi guys, I currently am occupying a junior in-house role. This role was financially supporting me while I was taking my Part A/B studies. Would it be good for me to do a TC now and start my career in the legal industry in this economic climate or would it be better to continue in my in-house role until the economy improves. Obviously if I do a TC, I would vacate my current job and the financial security it provides me with no guarantee that I could secure retention once I completed my tc in this current economy.
Anyone have anything else to add?

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  #6442 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 10:19 AM
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Currently working inhouse in the financial sector sitting at 3 pqe/6k. Job scope is fairly interesting, lots of exposure, growth opportunities and interaction with management. That said, HR business partner has hinted that I might not get promotion/pay raise despite great appraisals due to Covid. Note that 6k might seem low in this forum, although speaking with peers it seems right about there.

Happy to hear thoughts about whether my fellow 3 pqes will be fine with such a package, and if no, what are your reasons, taking into account job security/atmosphere.
Can someone clarify if an in-house 3PQE lawyer earns only 6k on average? In all honesty I find this quite appalling. That's around the figure big 4 A1/2s are drawing, and (from my understanding) similar to the average graduate with 4 years experience (taking into account 1 year of training/bar exam) in other private sector jobs.

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  #6443 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 10:42 AM
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Can someone clarify if an in-house 3PQE lawyer earns only 6k on average? In all honesty I find this quite appalling. That's around the figure big 4 A1/2s are drawing, and (from my understanding) similar to the average graduate with 4 years experience (taking into account 1 year of training/bar exam) in other private sector jobs.
Why is that appalling to you? Your understanding is correct, but why do you assume that a law graduate should earn that much more than an average graduate outside of private practice? Honestly, inhouse work can be done by pretty much any decently intelligent person who is in the industry. It is just traditionally done by lawyers because they already know the material. But it's not that much of a learning curve, because any real hard law gets thrown to a real law firm.

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  #6444 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 11:27 AM
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Default Inhouse financial sector

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Originally Posted by Unrego View Post
Currently working inhouse in the financial sector sitting at 3 pqe/6k. Job scope is fairly interesting, lots of exposure, growth opportunities and interaction with management. That said, HR business partner has hinted that I might not get promotion/pay raise despite great appraisals due to Covid. Note that 6k might seem low in this forum, although speaking with peers it seems right about there.

Happy to hear thoughts about whether my fellow 3 pqes will be fine with such a package, and if no, what are your reasons, taking into account job security/atmosphere.
Is this role legal related? Pay is low though the bonus component might compensate for that? Try moving into compliance related work? Might have better salary prospects.
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  #6445 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 02:32 PM
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Anyone have anything else to add?
Not sure if OP has shared his/her ultimate goals but if getting qualified is merely a 'badge collection' exercise of sorts, I don't think it is sufficient cause to leave right now.

Most law grads get qualified first because it is the most natural thing to do (and also since many a HR require their in-house to be qualified. This is increasingly less of a norm these days). Since OP is already in-house, I say stay on and be employed, and when the market stabilizes in (?) years... then apply for a 6 month no-pay leave to complete your TC. No rush to get qualified now unless not being qualified somehow = opportunity loss in your company insofar as salary is concerned cf. a similar level/rank peer who is qualified. Even then, the opportunity loss must be judged against your chances of finding a TC + getting retained and being remunerated decently in this climate.

I don't think part b results have an expiration date - so the above is based on this assumption. End of the day, the cons of leaving is so much more than the pros.
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  #6446 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 02:41 PM
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Is this role legal related? Pay is low though the bonus component might compensate for that? Try moving into compliance related work? Might have better salary prospects.
People seem to group in-house counsels under a single umbrella. In reality, there are many sub-categories within the in-house community and pay varies greatly [GREATLY] within these sub-categories. Generally, in-house counsels in the following roles will earn more than 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Banks - not compliance, but legal
(2) Regional in-house for F500/listed MNCs
(3) Fin-tech/Internet-related companies [think amazon, facebook, linked - all currently hiring btw!]
(4) IP counsels for pharma/luxury branks/brand enforcement teams

For the above roles... you should be thinking 7k-9k at 3pqe. I was at 7.5k (i thought it was low then, now i'm just glad i still have a job).

The kind of roles that pay 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Local companies.
(2) O&G/freight forwarding where the contracts are mainly standard form.
(3) Asian companies with a low pay-high bonus (depending on economy) kind of package. Think Japanese companies.


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  #6447 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 02:44 PM
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People seem to group in-house counsels under a single umbrella. In reality, there are many sub-categories within the in-house community and pay varies greatly [GREATLY] within these sub-categories. Generally, in-house counsels in the following roles will earn more than 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Banks - not compliance, but legal
(2) Regional in-house for F500/listed MNCs
(3) Fin-tech/Internet-related companies [think amazon, facebook, linked - all currently hiring btw!]
(4) IP counsels for pharma/luxury branks/brand enforcement teams

For the above roles... you should be thinking 7k-9k at 3pqe. I was at 7.5k (i thought it was low then, now i'm just glad i still have a job).

The kind of roles that pay 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Local companies.
(2) O&G/freight forwarding where the contracts are mainly standard form.
(3) Asian companies with a low pay-high bonus (depending on economy) kind of package. Think Japanese companies.
For OP, i'd say try pivoting into banking roles if you're already in the finance sector. Even with Covid - i know some banks are still investing heavily in the region.
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  #6448 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
People seem to group in-house counsels under a single umbrella. In reality, there are many sub-categories within the in-house community and pay varies greatly [GREATLY] within these sub-categories. Generally, in-house counsels in the following roles will earn more than 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Banks - not compliance, but legal
(2) Regional in-house for F500/listed MNCs
(3) Fin-tech/Internet-related companies [think amazon, facebook, linked - all currently hiring btw!]
(4) IP counsels for pharma/luxury branks/brand enforcement teams

For the above roles... you should be thinking 7k-9k at 3pqe. I was at 7.5k (i thought it was low then, now i'm just glad i still have a job).

The kind of roles that pay 6k at 3pqe:

(1) Local companies.
(2) O&G/freight forwarding where the contracts are mainly standard form.
(3) Asian companies with a low pay-high bonus (depending on economy) kind of package. Think Japanese companies.
OP of the 3 PQE post here.

Definitely true - in my case, I belong to (3) - Asian companies... Kind of a double whammy for me now since economy scuttled promotion/pay raise + high bonus.

For me, the main consideration then in accepting this role was, as mentioned due to the growth opportunities since I came from a non-FI/corporate background. I was willing to accept lower base across board because of this. Now that I have had the validation from management in the value of my work (as well as built self-confidence in the QC of my work), just wanted to find out a reasonable figure to push for, when the opportunity arises.

Grateful for the responses.
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  #6449 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 03:52 PM
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Default Tsmp

Hello! Can I ask if anyone has any views/ experiences about TSMP and its dispute resolution practice?
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  #6450 (permalink)  
Old 18-06-2020, 03:57 PM
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Hello! Can I ask if anyone has any views/ experiences about TSMP and its dispute resolution practice?
Some good people. Some not so good people.
I had good experiences with Kelvin Koh.
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