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  #5601 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 02:20 PM
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Iím a trainee at one of the big fours and I think almost everyone I knew got retained. Not sure about other firms though.
Depends on what big 4. I hear two out of 4 of the smaller Big 4s have lower r rates

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  #5602 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 02:34 PM
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Anyone knows the retention rate for the law firm at MBFC tower 1

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  #5603 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 07:14 PM
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Can anyone confirm Lee and Lee did not retain anyone and ShookLin retained half of their trainees?
Harry E retained a few.

Withers and Lee & Lee have yet to announce retention.

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  #5604 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 10:09 PM
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So can any seniors outline next steps for trainees who have not ben retained?
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  #5605 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 10:15 PM
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Depends on what big 4. I hear two out of 4 of the smaller Big 4s have lower r rates
ď4 of the smaller Big 4sĒ = all of the ďBig 4sĒ
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  #5606 (permalink)  
Old 26-05-2020, 11:58 PM
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So can any seniors outline next steps for trainees who have not ben retained?
I'm not a senior. But here are the laws of the post-pandemic world, well, what I make of it:

1. If you're in corporate, go to litigation

2. If you're in litigation, go to litigation

3. If you're from a SME, apply to a smaller SME.

4. If you're from an international SME, but on the Singapore side / do SG work, you're still the same as (3). Working on a few matters here and there or assisting - same as (3).

5. If you're from an international SME, but do international work, apply to MBFC T1.

While the world is indeed your oyster and you are advised against a weak mindset, excuses about the economy aside, they'll still prefer that you were retained and finding a new job than otherwise. I'm sorry guys, just being practical.

This Covid sucks for everyone, and prejudices a lot of good and talented trainees. But this is my two cents. You're not screwed if you're not in a SME or international office of an international SME, slightly screwed if you're in a Singapore SME and very screwed if you're from a small SME.

The truth of the matter is that there are more candidates than there are jobs out there. Much, much more, given that retention rates amongst the mid sized have fallen, and some firms not retaining at all
Add that to the glut.

Now's the time to tap on who you know rather than what you know. Hope everyone gets out fine.

If you still have Part B though, don't worry market will get better. If you need a job this year, this is a bad time. Be realistic about your options. The firms who have retained have limited spaces. And the firms who have retained 0 have absolutely no space and may cut costs/people. It is all a numbers game, dollars and cents.
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  #5607 (permalink)  
Old 27-05-2020, 12:05 AM
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I'm not a senior. But here are the laws of the post-pandemic world, well, what I make of it:

1. If you're in corporate, go to litigation

2. If you're in litigation, go to litigation

3. If you're from a SME, apply to a smaller SME.

4. If you're from an international SME, but on the Singapore side / do SG work, you're still the same as (3). Working on a few matters here and there or assisting - same as (3).

5. If you're from an international SME, but do international work, apply to MBFC T1.

While the world is indeed your oyster and you are advised against a weak mindset, excuses about the economy aside, they'll still prefer that you were retained and finding a new job than otherwise. I'm sorry guys, just being practical.

This Covid sucks for everyone, and prejudices a lot of good and talented trainees. But this is my two cents. You're not screwed if you're not in a SME or international office of an international SME, slightly screwed if you're in a Singapore SME and very screwed if you're from a small SME.

The truth of the matter is that there are more candidates than there are jobs out there. Much, much more, given that retention rates amongst the mid sized have fallen, and some firms not retaining at all
Add that to the glut.

Now's the time to tap on who you know rather than what you know. Hope everyone gets out fine.

If you still have Part B though, don't worry market will get better. If you need a job this year, this is a bad time. Be realistic about your options. The firms who have retained have limited spaces. And the firms who have retained 0 have absolutely no space and may cut costs/people. It is all a numbers game, dollars and cents.
And of course I say this with the obvious that the only thing your employer will look at / bin is where you trained at. Good grades help, but only to an extent since you are now dealing with the practice of law and not (mostly) what an academic thinks.

They will look at (i) where you trained at as an indicator of your usefulness (ii) what your bosses thought when they didn't retain you (iii) your reasons (iv) your practical track record. You can have a FCH and lose every case, or a 2.2 and win every case you work on. Might be luck, or might be you have something the other guy doesn't.

Of course, if the place has a poor track record of retention the question on everyone's mind would be why you doomed yourself.
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  #5608 (permalink)  
Old 27-05-2020, 12:21 AM
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I graduated from a local uni. I have been studying hard, not travelling for any exchange programs, only to be trained at a mid sized firm and I have not been retained.

I know I have problems finding an associate position. Now, I envy those party goers/travel lust in law school who also studied and enjoyed themselves. I know of a lot of people who went overseas and had fun but still managed to get retained in big fours/int firms, maybe employers like them. Maybe they are got more worldly and street smart from having different experiences. I donít know.

I just feel that no matter how much I study I still canít beat those party goers/wanderlusts. Why is life unfair.
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  #5609 (permalink)  
Old 27-05-2020, 02:44 AM
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I graduated from a local uni. I have been studying hard, not travelling for any exchange programs, only to be trained at a mid sized firm and I have not been retained.

I know I have problems finding an associate position. Now, I envy those party goers/travel lust in law school who also studied and enjoyed themselves. I know of a lot of people who went overseas and had fun but still managed to get retained in big fours/int firms, maybe employers like them. Maybe they are got more worldly and street smart from having different experiences. I donít know.

I just feel that no matter how much I study I still canít beat those party goers/wanderlusts. Why is life unfair.
Why can't everyone do law? Why is life unfair? Life is inherently unfair deal with it. You can keep looking for an answer to why life is unfair but not find a real solution.

The only firms that are more 'desirable' than B4 are Baker and CC, to the mind of a fresh grad at least. The rest - if you're not doing international work fully, not a big deal. It doesn't impress anyone. You can play pretend, though.

Pay is not the only metric. The B4 provide future employers with a mark of having been trained. It looks great on the CV

Grades are only one aspect. You must learn and know how the world works to be a better lawyer. We aren't talking about the metaphysical world. The best cross-examiners are those who know how the human mind works. The best lawyers know how the game is played, not what 100 cases on the subject say. The best corporate lawyers know why a legally sound solution will fall through. You must also be liked.

I think you still have a clean slate. Take it and roll with it. F the presumption that you're incompetent. Cast your net far and see what you get. In any case, most of your friends won't be in practice after 2 years. They'll stay for 1 to 1.5 years max. Some even 6 months. You'll be free to take their place at 2PQE.

Just find a good mentor. Opportunities will always be there.
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  #5610 (permalink)  
Old 27-05-2020, 09:06 AM
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I graduated from a local uni. I have been studying hard, not travelling for any exchange programs, only to be trained at a mid sized firm and I have not been retained.

I know I have problems finding an associate position. Now, I envy those party goers/travel lust in law school who also studied and enjoyed themselves. I know of a lot of people who went overseas and had fun but still managed to get retained in big fours/int firms, maybe employers like them. Maybe they are got more worldly and street smart from having different experiences. I donít know.

I just feel that no matter how much I study I still canít beat those party goers/wanderlusts. Why is life unfair.
i completely empathise - life will probably be never fair. but if you keep working hard and try to inch forwards, it's better than being two steps back!
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