If it is indeed true that KCL awards 50% first class, then to prospective grads - u know where to go for your law degree. Since first class are held in so high regard in Sg, make a wise decision. No point crying over spilled milk. NUS awards only 10% first class.
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I assume the US$180k salary for first years that OP is referring to is Cravath. Are you in Cravath? Could you share with us some of your tips or creds on how to land a job at Cravath?
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% of first class grads in UK universities, NUS and SMU ://.straitstimes.com/singapore/nus-law-school-to-give-out-more-first-class-honours-to-reflect-rising-quality-of-students Acceptance rate s://.whatdotheyknow.com/request/law_number_of_offers_and_accepta#incoming-1097082 |
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Not that easy to get into but your best bet is to do the LSE/UCL/King's-Columbia JD because that opens up doors to OCI at Columbia or even Wachtell (heard pre-recession bonuses meant 2x 180k USD) s://.linkedin.com/in/marco-wong-87128b47/ ://.wlrk.com/Natalie-SY-Wong/ Alternative is Oxbridge-Harvard LLM, but that depends on market factors and you will need to hustle with connections. Cravath scale is across most of NY's top firms and sometimes globally, so you don't necessarily need to be at Cravath. s://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary-wars-scorecard-which-firms-have-announced-raises/ But be prepared to be a slave. |
*Cravath, not columbia.
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Ultimately legal education is a consumer product. Kings rightly provided a better experience in the ease of obtaining a first. As long as the number of applicants to Nus law continue to remain high, there is no incentive for them to provide the same product (ease of obtaining a first) Unless people boycott Nus due to their too stringent honours criteria, if not Nus will continue to be strict with first class. Then as consumers, what we can do is to find a correct institution who will give us what we want. |
Thanks! Just out of curiosity, if I am from SMU magna and I go to Columbia to do a JD (self funded), do I have a shot at Wachtell? Or it is your first degree have to be Ivy League?
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My HK friends in Davis Polk, Gibson Dunn, Wachtell all compare their salaries with me. I feel poor whenever I have to disclose my salary in a big four. Is there any chance I can jump to an American firm from a big four doing capital markets? Just a 2:1 local single degree grad no connections, parents retired. 2 years pqe about to marry soon. Fiancé in law as well doing conveyancing.
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Added to the list - CC/Bakers
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You'd have as much of a shot at Wachtell as every other JD from HYSCCN (harvard yale stanford columbia chicago NYU), ie maybe 3% chance of success. +/- maybe 2% of your chances for being Asian non-American (minus points for not being American and entirely ZERO reason to hire you, plus points for maybe a token diversity hire). BTW your SMU manga won't be worth the paper it's printed on because 33% of the HYSCCN cohort are prolly some summa cum laudes from the ivy leagues. |
An SMU degree is only worth as much as the toilet paper i use every morning
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Advice to law grads / law students:
As someone who has been following the career paths of successful lawyers quite closely - below are the key indicators to predict how far a law graduate will go in his/her careers. Note: these are just indicators to predict success. There are many other successful graduates without such indicators but go on to be very successful nonetheless. But these are key signposts that will be good to have (correlation). 1. First class Honours 2. Dean’s List (the more semesters the better) 3. Valedictorian 4. Stint as a JLC 5. Oxbridge degree 6. BCL/LLM from a top university (Ivy League + Oxbridge) 7. Being placed on the Order of Merit / SILE Commendation List for PLC / Part B of the Bar Exams 8. Starting out career in an international firm/magic circle The more you have the greater chance of success. |
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What we want to know is how a 2:1 from a 2nd tier UK uni , or 2:2 from local uni, with average part b results , and no connections can get a coveted job. This is the average and mediocre demographics of the ppl that is actually active in the forum. So please help us. |
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Two, you get all and any vaguely law-related job possible to boost your resume. Usually courtroom staff ,like typists, or as a legal secretary, or even multi-year intern. Once your resume is sufficiently bolstered, the place you've been working at to prove your steel might make you a full lawyer, or you'll find a job elsewhere in a small to average-sized firm. |
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In short, if you come from a third rated university, you should either quit or go do a LLM from an Ivy League / Oxbridge but bear in mind that recent admission pattern shows you need to be top 5% of cohort for LLB and multiple prizes for postgrad law in Oxbridge. Even so this is no guarantee. I’ve seen top first class getting rejected by Oxbridge. Harvard admission is slightly less academic based and has more flexibility. Other than that, if you have a lot of money and are thinking of going overseas, do medicine. It’s a more secure career. Alternatively try applying for postgrad medicine if your law career doesn’t work out. Law is so reputation based and so much emphasis is placed on brand name/ glamour and prestige that it’s very hard to do well in the industry without outstanding academics. |
My pupil master Davinder Singh was only a second lower from NUS.
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hence the even greater disparity between uni and class of honors |
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There are positions out there for lawyers. Maybe not everybody will work in a glass skyscraper overlooking Marina bay but one just needs to look hard enough. This is coming from someone who qualified at the peak of the glut between 2014 to 2018 call. |
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STOP the lies
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I didnt like the fear mongering from some people, especially some lawyers in my cohort. When I turned down the offer to stay in the firm I did my TC in, one of my lawyer friend said I was committing suicide and that people are taking up lawyer positions for as low as SGD 1500 to SGD 2000. Well I turned a blind eye to whatever nonsense he was sprouting as I certainty didnt receive any such low ball offers. So please stop the fear mongering and the lies. You are trained to be a lawyer, so be one. That is the reason why you went to law school and called to the Singapore bar as an advocate and solicitor. |
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Small firms really $2-3k or less. But working hours flexible.
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Anyone doing rlt ptc now? I am appalled that my firm staff when assigning me work just throw it to me to figure out how to do by myself instead of giving clear instructions
also I feel a lack of culture to mentor and groom young lawyers is it supposed to be like that in Singapore or am I the only person facing this issue. I did internships in London before and the partners and assoc were willing to guide and explain. But in Singapore it is like a different story. People seems rather selfish. |
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Anyone knows how to get a TC with Clifford Chance? I’ve seen some LinkedIn profiles, some have unbeatable CVS, but there are also some who managed to get in without a first class degree?
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Does a NUS LLb grad need to do a USA LLM in order to take the New York Bar exam?
Or can straight away take the NY Bar exam straight after obtaining a NUS LLB? |
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anyone knows what the payscale is like for silver circle / magic circle / us firms in singapore? considering running away from a big4 sweatshop...
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anyone has the latest figure for Big 4 in Singapore?
Want to run ahead of my small firm |
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How to apply? |
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Should I go UK to get my law degree?
My main concern is that I don’t want to get a Second Lower Honours degree from NUS |
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