Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yeah but the very top graduates from the overseas universities don’t come back to Singapore.
They stay in London and work in the white shoe and magic circle.
They are smart. When they come back to SG many years later these people would have become MC/whiteshoe partners sent from London to manage the Asia outfits.

It’s the mediocre ones that come back.

I don't think local graduates need worry about the glut from overseas graduates because most of the latter are subpar by our standards.

Even the clever few from overseas who do make it into the MC firms may have also secretly acquired British citizenship along the way as the UK allows dual citizenship, so who is to say you can't dob them in to ICA if they do foolishly come back and become competition to our local top dog jobs?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't think local graduates need worry about the glut from overseas graduates because most of the latter are subpar by our standards.

Even the clever few from overseas who do make it into the MC firms may have also secretly acquired British citizenship along the way as the UK allows dual citizenship, so who is to say you can't dob them in to ICA if they do foolishly come back and become competition to our local top dog jobs?

Honestly, you don't have to be the "top" or "clever few" to get a TC from a reputable firm in London. Take a look on LinkedIn. It's really not that difficult to get a London TC if you have a decent 2.1. Even better if you speak a second language fluently. Chinese speakers are quite highly sought after. It may have become tougher in the recent years due to visa quotas.

I had a couple of offers in London but chose to come back for family reasons. Lateraled into MC firm a couple of years later. You will still get there if you plan your moves wisely.

Transactional work is not difficult, you just need a good attitude, ability to work long hours and common sense. Seniors would also prefer someone who's pleasant to work with due to the long hours. Don't get too hung up on the local/overseas uni divide.

Anyone knows what are the salaries like for trainees and assocs at khattarwong? massive thanks

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I believe that poster was referring to the current situation now. What you mentioned isn't wrong, though I wouldn't say plenty of de-listed uni grads have better lives, but there is a minority who are doing quite well. But that is because they entered the market when it was not so competitive and easier to find TC and be retained. Not to forget, Part A was more bearable last time. I have been hearing rumours that the Company Law Exam in Part A as of now is so difficult that even current corporate law practitioners aren't able to answer in two hours, much less your graduates.

The situation now is quite dire. If you are from a de-listed uni with a 2:1 or 2:2, the odds are highly stacked against you to even obtain training. Some of the big firms are cutting down on trainees and the retaining numbers are decreasing bit by bit. It doesn't help that this current trade war between US and China may hurt Singapore significantly as we rely heavily on global trade.

Even those with 2:1 from the still-listed UK universities like Nottingham, Warwick and Bristol are finding it extremely difficult and I heard from hearsay that even the often-shunned Chinatown firms do receive requests for training even though they have never advertised. Law is no longer milk and honey anymore, rather it has become tougher to survive over the years, hence the high attrition rate.

I’m not saying they have better lives because they come back and get TCs at the Big 4 (which in any case is happening now as well) but that they stay to train in London. Alot of them have leveraged their London experience to enter partnership immediately after returning to SG.

What you say re. grades are just as applicable to NUS students. Someone with a 2:2 is going to struggle to find a job, regardless of what uni they come from. In contrast, the people from my batch with 1st class from de-listed unis were all able to find TCs before graduation. Sure not all of them might be at a prestigious firm, but for every Chinatown TC there is one in the Big 4 or in London.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I’m not saying they have better lives because they come back and get TCs at the Big 4 (which in any case is happening now as well) but that they stay to train in London. Alot of them have leveraged their London experience to enter partnership immediately after returning to SG.

What you say re. grades are just as applicable to NUS students. Someone with a 2:2 is going to struggle to find a job, regardless of what uni they come from. In contrast, the people from my batch with 1st class from de-listed unis were all able to find TCs before graduation. Sure not all of them might be at a prestigious firm, but for every Chinatown TC there is one in the Big 4 or in London.

Of course, if a graduate from a delisted uni scores a 2:1, has many internships under his belt and has a good CCA record, he will be chosen over a local uni graduate who scores a 2:2 with no internship under his belt and no CCA record.

But if we take a fair test and compare a delisted uni grad and a local uni grad who both scored 2:2 and have the same resume (no CCA or internship), employers will definitely prefer the local uni grad, unless he has super low EQ and pissed off the interviewers

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Of course, if a graduate from a delisted uni scores a 2:1, has many internships under his belt and has a good CCA record, he will be chosen over a local uni graduate who scores a 2:2 with no internship under his belt and no CCA record.

But if we take a fair test and compare a delisted uni grad and a local uni grad who both scored 2:2 and have the same resume (no CCA or internship), employers will definitely prefer the local uni grad, unless he has super low EQ and pissed off the interviewers

If a graduate has good academics and good extracurricular, he won't struggle to find a job regardless of which uni he came from. If a graduate has bad grades and did jack **** in uni, he's going to struggle in the future. It really is all about the calibre of the individual at play.

I don't get what the obsession is with trying to prove that NUS is better than overseas unis. If anything, delisted unis place their grads in a far better position by giving them opportunities to go directly to MC/US/SC firms in London.

Thought this is fairly settled

On degree prestige:
Oxbridge > NUS > LSE/UCL > Listed UK > SMU > Delisted UK > Australia

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thought this is fairly settled

On degree prestige:
Oxbridge > NUS > LSE/UCL > Listed UK > SMU > Delisted UK > Australia

Prestige ain't gonna put food on the table.

Number of NUS grads trained in MC London = 0

Number of delisted uni grads trained in MC London > 0

Ergo delisted uni > NUS

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Prestige ain't gonna put food on the table.

Number of NUS grads trained in MC London = 0

Number of delisted uni grads trained in MC London > 0

Ergo delisted uni > NUS

But ego of NUS>> ego of delisted

Latest Guardian ranking
Oxford down to 3rd position
Cambridge is 1st again
So technically Cambridge is better than Oxford
This is important if you are deciding between the two