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  #3451 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2018, 08:14 PM
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Cheer up man! Theres no point in staying at a location where they do not recognise your value and efforts. Use another perspective, this is the start of your career. If you were retained there, chances of increment and promotion will be low since they do not appreciate you.
Of course this is like a breakup. When your ex smu law gf cheats on you with other guys.
Same thing.

Bunch of bloody idiots.

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  #3452 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2018, 08:54 PM
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anyone felt betrayed of not getting retained?

I put in the longest hours as triainee
Did the most opinion piece
but along the way made mistakes

then my fellow trainees just stayed low key
didn’t take any initiative
just do as told
leaves at 6.30 pm daily

in the end he gets retained and not me

what is this? I get penalized for being proactive?


I felt betrayed because everybody was so kind and friendly to me yet behind my back gave me a low-evaluation.
It figures. Your English is terrible. If I were your supervising solicitor and you gave me such language quality in your drafts, your work product would be shredded right in front of you.

Spend your long hours learning proper grammar instead of being "proactive". As a junior lawyer, you merely need to do what you're told.

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  #3453 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:17 AM
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It figures. Your English is terrible. If I were your supervising solicitor and you gave me such language quality in your drafts, your work product would be shredded right in front of you.

Spend your long hours learning proper grammar instead of being "proactive". As a junior lawyer, you merely need to do what you're told.
His english is fine.

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE U WHO IS THE ULTIMATE PROBLEM IN THIS INDUSRTY THAT MAKES PEOPLE QUIT

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  #3454 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:21 AM
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you join army you should expect to be hot sweaty and tired

you become doctor you should expect blood pus and other disgusting crap

lawyer cannot expect perfect english? when it is literally the very basis of everything you do?

if you have to quit because you got called out for something that should be a given, then maybe you picked the wrong profession to begin with. bloody strawberry generation, why don’t you draft your pleadings in bahasa melayu instead
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  #3455 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:31 AM
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you join army you should expect to be hot sweaty and tired

you become doctor you should expect blood pus and other disgusting crap

lawyer cannot expect perfect english? when it is literally the very basis of everything you do?

if you have to quit because you got called out for something that should be a given, then maybe you picked the wrong profession to begin with. bloody strawberry generation, why don’t you draft your pleadings in bahasa melayu instead
Chillax dude...This is a forum. Nobody scrutinize on their english when posting. You must be one of those dumb dumbs that correct ppl's english in text msgs. Chill mannn, just becos he half-ass it here, doesnt mean his english is bad at work. You don't have to be to critical dots.
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  #3456 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 10:09 AM
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My mistake, not too familiar with the legal sector in Malaysia, but you get the point.
Indeed I do. Your post covered my employers, past and present. I generally about the satellite office considerations as well.

There are I think some differences though. Rahmat Lim and A&G Myanmar adopt the same policies as A&G Singapore. They don’t hire and fire, so crappy pay aside you can be assured that your job will survive a recession even if you were in a satellite office. CC is different. They have no qualms about shedding entire satellite offices. We recently shed Jakarta and Bangkok. Only one team from Bangkok successfully transferred to SG, and even that team ported over only the most junior associates. CC SG is currently seen as a strategic hub, and has a huge number of lawyers - more than your average SG midsize firm. This doesn’t however mean that SG won’t be cut in a downturn.

Pay in CC SG and Cavenagh is decent. When you factor in taxes, associate pay here is on par with our London counterparts. Associate pay globally is approximately even, save for CC Beijing (where salaries are inflated to make up for the crappy living environment and pollution), and NY (where salaries need to match the Cravath/Milbank scale). If however you are a born and bred singaporean, you’d be in a better financial situation here in SG, since you can live off your parents and save on accom.
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  #3457 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 10:23 AM
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Chillax dude...This is a forum. Nobody scrutinize on their english when posting. You must be one of those dumb dumbs that correct ppl's english in text msgs. Chill mannn, just becos he half-ass it here, doesnt mean his english is bad at work. You don't have to be to critical dots.
There’s a difference between lazy shorthand and bad grammar.

In lazy shorthand, people may use acronyms, accidentally drop words and miss capitalising words. The basic integrity of the grammatical structure of their sentences however, remains largely intact.

In contrast, errors like the inclusion of an additional “s” where it doesn’t belong, or additional words such as the additional “on” after the word “scrutinize”, are clear indicia of bad English.

Rather than hide behind the “I’m just lazy online” argument, you should fix your English. Even if you have a brilliant legal mind and an amazing work attitude, you’ll never operate at the highest levels of the legal industry if you use flawed English to communicate with exacting global clients who expect nothing short of perfection.
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  #3458 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 06:53 PM
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Indeed I do. Your post covered my employers, past and present. I generally about the satellite office considerations as well.

There are I think some differences though. Rahmat Lim and A&G Myanmar adopt the same policies as A&G Singapore. They don’t hire and fire, so crappy pay aside you can be assured that your job will survive a recession even if you were in a satellite office. CC is different. They have no qualms about shedding entire satellite offices. We recently shed Jakarta and Bangkok. Only one team from Bangkok successfully transferred to SG, and even that team ported over only the most junior associates. CC SG is currently seen as a strategic hub, and has a huge number of lawyers - more than your average SG midsize firm. This doesn’t however mean that SG won’t be cut in a downturn.

Pay in CC SG and Cavenagh is decent. When you factor in taxes, associate pay here is on par with our London counterparts. Associate pay globally is approximately even, save for CC Beijing (where salaries are inflated to make up for the crappy living environment and pollution), and NY (where salaries need to match the Cravath/Milbank scale). If however you are a born and bred singaporean, you’d be in a better financial situation here in SG, since you can live off your parents and save on accom.
Of course there will be different firms will have different approaches to how well they take care of their satellite offices. However, firm policy can always shift, especially if there is a change in management. My point being that if you worked in CC London, you wouldn't even have the worry in the back of your mind that your office might be closed.

Point taken regarding CC SG pay, but I deliberately compared the MC to SG Big4 because someone working at CC SG would be more equivalent to being in a top US firm's London office (£150k NQ pre-tax). At every level of so-called "prestige", you will reap higher financial benefits in London than in SG.
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  #3459 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 07:33 PM
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Of course there will be different firms will have different approaches to how well they take care of their satellite offices. However, firm policy can always shift, especially if there is a change in management. My point being that if you worked in CC London, you wouldn't even have the worry in the back of your mind that your office might be closed.

Point taken regarding CC SG pay, but I deliberately compared the MC to SG Big4 because someone working at CC SG would be more equivalent to being in a top US firm's London office (£150k NQ pre-tax). At every level of so-called "prestige", you will reap higher financial benefits in London than in SG.
I’m not quite sure I agree. I’d compare CC SG to CC London and Milbank SG to Milbank London. Milbank SG pays full Cravath. The disparity between Milbank SG and Milbank London is even wider due to the higher tax bracket.

When you compare apples with apples at the associate level, a home grown singaporean will always find Singapore offices of MCs and US firms more attractive than London. I personally did the math when approached by a recruiter for a London MC role, and it made zero financial sense to move. The additional tax and expenses in London alone would have left me over S$70,000 poorer per annum. Naturally I chose to stay.

Things become very different at the partner level though. London has far more volume, and far more high value headline transactions which generate huge revenues. Recovery in London is generally higher too - Asian clients tend to skimp and bargain on fees, and refuse to pay reasonable uplifts even when fee assumptions are breached. The recovery ratios in Singapore are atrociously bad, which affects profitability. On the whole, SG partners almost invariably earn less than London partners of the same seniority, even after factoring the effects of higher tax rates.
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  #3460 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:13 PM
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I’m not quite sure I agree. I’d compare CC SG to CC London and Milbank SG to Milbank London. Milbank SG pays full Cravath. The disparity between Milbank SG and Milbank London is even wider due to the higher tax bracket.
Comparing between different offices in a firm is a valid approach if you're past the NQ stage and you have the opportunity to move to a firm that doesn't offer TCs. However, if you take the perspective of someone looking to apply for a TC (which was how this topic started) then you also have to factor in the competitiveness and desirability of TCs in the wider market.

I don't think it would be uncontroversial to say that CC SG has one of the most sought after TC programs in SG, especially since the vast majority of other international firms don't offer TCs there. Its safe to assume that the people who secure TCs in CC SG should equally be able to secure one at the most sought after firms in London. If we focus on compensation as the primary metric, as many applicants do, the equivalent would be US firms in London.
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