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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 11:34 AM
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how is it a "clever ploy" when associates leave in droves from Year 3 onwards

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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 12:19 PM
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how is it a "clever ploy" when associates leave in droves from Year 3 onwards
If I may proffer my opinion on this point, I think everything the Big4s do is carefully calibrated.

In my (possibly misguided) opinion, the Year 3 exodus is something the Big4s actually plan for - a calibrated trimming mechanism which prevents them from having to support a pool of increasingly expensive senior associates when much of the work can be handled by less experienced junior associates.

And as half the batch leaves, the senior associates who are left are more likely to stay because they see their competition thinning and their partnership prospects improving - these senior associates form the competent, supervisory mid-tier level which runs keeps the system running cheaply without the need for too much partner involvement.

Despite the shrinking gap in overall remuneration between the Big4s and the offshores, another 30-40% of the initial batch will eventually burn out and leave to go inhouse in Year 5 and year 7. The attrition pattern seems to follow a "radioactive half-life" of about 2-3 years. This leaves about 4-5 or so people to be made up in every batch at the end of the 7 year mark.

And of course, those who choose to go pay a painful price for their decision (3 months notice with no front-loading component, and possibly a clawback).

In light of the above, don't you think the Big4's are indeed being clever (though unconscionably so) about their remuneration structure?

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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by skydiver View Post
If I may proffer my opinion on this point, I think everything the Big4s do is carefully calibrated.

In my (possibly misguided) opinion, the Year 3 exodus is something the Big4s actually plan for - a calibrated trimming mechanism which prevents them from having to support a pool of increasingly expensive senior associates when much of the work can be handled by less experienced junior associates.

And as half the batch leaves, the senior associates who are left are more likely to stay because they see their competition thinning and their partnership prospects improving - these senior associates form the competent, supervisory mid-tier level which runs keeps the system running cheaply without the need for too much partner involvement.

Despite the shrinking gap in overall remuneration between the Big4s and the offshores, another 30-40% of the initial batch will eventually burn out and leave to go inhouse in Year 5 and year 7. The attrition pattern seems to follow a "radioactive half-life" of about 2-3 years. This leaves about 4-5 or so people to be made up in every batch at the end of the 7 year mark.

And of course, those who choose to go pay a painful price for their decision (3 months notice with no front-loading component, and possibly a clawback).

In light of the above, don't you think the Big4's are indeed being clever (though unconscionably so) about their remuneration structure?

based on anecdotal evidence, my thesis is that there has not been a significant drop in attrition rates since 2010 when the frontloading comp structure was implemented....but yeah i see where you're coming from

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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 04:15 PM
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A constant supply of cheap warm bodies - just what the managing partner ordered.


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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 13-08-2014, 04:41 PM
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Any practicing lawyers can provide an indication of salary range for NQs to 3PQE in large local law firms outside the big 4? Excluding TSMP since it is kind of an outlier. Or is it too varied to provide any meaningful figures?
I'm interested to know about this too. Anybody?
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 17-08-2014, 07:52 PM
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Singapore is facing a glut of lawyers: Shanmugam

great.
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 17-08-2014, 07:56 PM
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http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/singapore-facing-glut-lawyers-shanmugam-20140817

great.
Over just four years up to March last year, the number of practising lawyers here leapt by nearly 25 per cent to more than 4,400.

Another 1,500 are expected to join them in the next three years. And there has been a sharp rise in those heading overseas to study law. In Britain alone, the number of Singapore law students more than doubled from 510 to 1,142 between 2010 and last year.

Law Minister K. Shanmugam dished out these numbers yesterday as he warned that Singapore could soon have more lawyers than jobs for them all.

He urged law students to temper career and salary expectations, and maybe even consider other jobs.

- See more at: Singapore is facing a glut of lawyers: Shanmugam
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2014, 08:10 AM
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yup, it is called tempering expectations, my friends. Even though we screwed up and failed to properly regulate the number of returning overseas law graduates, a law degree still provides you with an excellent education blah blah blah. just don't come back to contribute to the glut. you will still have excellent job prospects as a performing artiste, hawker or blogshop owner blah blah blah. you kids are so brilliant, i'm sure you'll figure something out. just remember, its not our fault. manage your own expectations!
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2014, 05:45 PM
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yup, it is called tempering expectations, my friends. Even though we screwed up and failed to properly regulate the number of returning overseas law graduates, a law degree still provides you with an excellent education blah blah blah. just don't come back to contribute to the glut. you will still have excellent job prospects as a performing artiste, hawker or blogshop owner blah blah blah. you kids are so brilliant, i'm sure you'll figure something out. just remember, its not our fault. manage your own expectations!
It's not just the overseas grads (who've no doubt spent alot of money to fund their studies). How about those who took up offers from the two law schools because of the increase in intakes? And those who've already obtained a 1st degree but chose to sign up for the 3-year graduate law programmes? Then there is the 3rd law school.

But yeah, at the end of it all, it is the students' fault for blindly taking up these opportunities. How convenient.
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 19-08-2014, 06:50 PM
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Why would there be a glut of lawyers when there was a serious shortage a few years back?

And why would the govt want to open a new law school in SIM to increase the amount of lawyers if they are already announcing an oversupply of lawyers?

Any answers would be appreciated.
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