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  #20121 (permalink)  
Old 20-09-2023, 11:34 PM
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Letís just say A&G corp is like, a big fish in a small pond. Nowadays itís a training pool for larger, more well-known international firms - lots of people go into A&G with a plan to stay for no longer than 2-3 years, and move to a better firm that pays more.
That's good isn't it. Big fish in a small pond is still a big fish. You have a chance to try for the big pond.

That's better than small fish in a small pond, which I assume is the lower half of the Big 4.

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  #20122 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 01:02 PM
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That's good isn't it. Big fish in a small pond is still a big fish. You have a chance to try for the big pond.

That's better than small fish in a small pond, which I assume is the lower half of the Big 4.
Actually there is strong demand from int firms for lawyers now, any mid-size to large firm is sufficient to give you a chance. Look at those that jumped recently (especially from Corp), they are quite varied in terms of experience and ex-firms.

As long as you are in big mid-sizes (at least), you got a good fighting chance. No point arguing which local pond is the biggest pond.

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  #20123 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 01:58 PM
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what is with this incessant obsession over ranking and $ man. Big4 or the relevant firms outside b4 pay around the same. What the point of sweating over the 3/4/500 or even 1k differentialÖ typical sickie penny wise pound foolish.

imo finding a firm you fit in and a bossís mindset you kind of align with is more optimal and in point.

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  #20124 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 04:54 PM
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what is with this incessant obsession over ranking and $ man. Big4 or the relevant firms outside b4 pay around the same. What the point of sweating over the 3/4/500 or even 1k differentialÖ typical sickie penny wise pound foolish.

imo finding a firm you fit in and a bossís mindset you kind of align with is more optimal and in point.
That's true when you are comparing among the big local firms. But if you are comparing local firms with international firms, the pay differential can be $5-10k a month. It's not pennies we are talking about.
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  #20125 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 05:07 PM
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Default Disheartened

Seniors, appreciate your assistance here. 2020 called, and drawing in the 6-7k range in a small practice (10+ lawyers, low bonus). By way of background my current firm is my longest having spent more than 1 year. I have spent 1 year in another mid sized firm (Firm 2). Work is both non-contentious and litigious.

There is a lot of face time culture here perpetuated by management. Toxicity is low to moderate. While the environment is not the best, it is not the worse. I had a horrific experience due to the abusive partners in my previous firm (Firm 3) where I spent less than 4 months.

Of late there have been barely any new engagements, work doesnít come in. In spite of this, earlier this year I discovered that my firm was going to pay all NQs higher than my previous salary range. I felt very sold out. I eventually succeeded in negotiating for my current pay range. Since then I have lost heart, and it has affected my mental health. I also had health scares also during the course of my time with Firm 4.

Recently, Iíve felt that NQ (lets call them, NQ X) is getting more tasks and I have been relegated to meaningless stuff. Support staff donít support. I'm basically a handyman for almost all the partners. Things have hit a low this week and I am getting f-ed for admin and menial things.

NQ X has half the workload and has caught the eye of management. I felt that my seniors are taking issue and nitpicking with things I do (some justified, some not).

1.Should I stick it out and hold on to receive the bonus that is typically declared end January before leaving?

2.Should I give a longer notice period to the prospective firms that I hope to apply to. (i.e. 3 months), when my actual notice is 2 months. Would 3 months be a put off?

3.Prior to firm 3, I have had a short stint in firm 1 (2months), but this was shortly after getting called. There isnít much noteworthy I did there. Should I leave it out in my CV?


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  #20126 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 05:14 PM
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Default 3PQE with no heart left

Seniors, appreciate your assistance here. 3PQE drawing in the 6-7k range in a small practice (10+ lawyers, low bonus). By way of background my current firm is my longest having spent more than 1 year (Firm 4). I have spent 1 year in another mid-sized firm (Firm 2). Work is both non-contentious and litigious.

There is a lot of face time culture here perpetuated by management. Toxicity is low to moderate. While the environment is not the best, it is not the worse I had.

Of late there have been barely any new engagements, work doesnít come in. In spite of this, earlier this year I discovered that my firm was going to pay 2023 NQs higher than what my previous salary was. I felt very betrayed by the firm, but I decided to give the firm face and stick it out for a bit more since I managed to renegotiate salary with management.

Recently, Iíve felt that NQ (lets call them, NQ X) is getting more tasks and I have been relegated to meaningless stuff. I'm basically a handyman for almost all the partners. Things have hit a low this week. I felt that my seniors are taking issue and nitpicking with things I do (some justified, some not). NQ X has a fraction of my workload and has caught the eye of management.

1.Should I stick it out and hold on to receive the bonus that is typically declared end January before leaving?

2.Should I give a longer notice period to the prospective firms that I hope to apply to. (i.e. 3 months), when my actual notice is 2 months. Would 3 months be a put off?

3.Prior to firm 3, I have had a short stint in firm 1 (2months), but this was shortly after getting called. There isnít much noteworthy I did there. Should I leave it out in my CV?
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  #20127 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 05:17 PM
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Default 3pqe

Seniors, appreciate your assistance here. 2020 called, and drawing in the 6-7k range in a small practice (10+ lawyers, low bonus). By way of background my current firm is my longest having spent more than 1 year (Firm 4). I have spent 1 year in another mid-sized firm (Firm 2). Work is both non-contentious and litigious. There is a lot of face time culture here perpetuated by management. Toxicity is low to moderate depending on politics.

Of late there have been barely any new engagements, work doesnít come in. In spite of this, earlier this year I discovered that my firm was going to pay 2023 NQs higher than my previous salary range. I felt very betrayed, but I decided to give the firm face and stick it out for a bit more having management acceded to my salary negotiation.
Things have hit a low this week. I felt that my seniors are taking issue and nit-picking with things I do (some justified, some not). I felt that management has been favouring the NQ that I work with more attention, and I am relegated to low value work.

1.Should I stick it out and hold on to receive the bonus that is typically declared end January before leaving?

2.Should I give a longer notice period to the prospective firms that I hope to apply to. (i.e. 3 months), when my actual notice is 2 months. Would 3 months be a put off?

3.Prior to firm 3, I have had a short stint in firm 1 (2months), but this was shortly after getting called. There isnít much noteworthy I did there. Should I leave it out in my CV?
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  #20128 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 06:05 PM
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Default Notice Period

3PQE assoc in a small practice (6-7k/mth, no 13 month bonus) looking to exit my current firm where I have spent over 1 year. I do contentious and non-contentious work.

The working relationship with my seniors and partners has been souring of late, and I have felt that they have favoured my NQ colleague. I have been relegated to a lot of meaningless work, admin, menial and even secretarial of late. Work load is not a lot for a 3PQE, simply because its not coming in.

The triggering factor in making me lose heart with my firm was when I found out my firm tried to pay NQ (NQ X) an even higher salary than what i was previously drawing as their starting salary. Subsequently, I had to negotiate and my current salary is the outcome.

My notice period is actually 2 months, but should I mention it as 3 months to the firms as I'm applying to for justifying a later start date. Should I forgo the bonus that may be declared in January.
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  #20129 (permalink)  
Old 21-09-2023, 07:01 PM
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what is with this incessant obsession over ranking and $ man. Big4 or the relevant firms outside b4 pay around the same. What the point of sweating over the 3/4/500 or even 1k differentialÖ typical sickie penny wise pound foolish.

imo finding a firm you fit in and a bossís mindset you kind of align with is more optimal and in point.
Cast your eyeballs 15 degrees upwards. See that word over there in the address bar? What does it spell? s.a.l.a.r.y. Hmmm. What could this word possibly mean? Anyone knows?
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  #20130 (permalink)  
Old 22-09-2023, 12:22 PM
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3PQE assoc in a small practice (6-7k/mth, no 13 month bonus) looking to exit my current firm where I have spent over 1 year. I do contentious and non-contentious work.

The working relationship with my seniors and partners has been souring of late, and I have felt that they have favoured my NQ colleague. I have been relegated to a lot of meaningless work, admin, menial and even secretarial of late. Work load is not a lot for a 3PQE, simply because its not coming in.

The triggering factor in making me lose heart with my firm was when I found out my firm tried to pay NQ (NQ X) an even higher salary than what i was previously drawing as their starting salary. Subsequently, I had to negotiate and my current salary is the outcome.

My notice period is actually 2 months, but should I mention it as 3 months to the firms as I'm applying to for justifying a later start date. Should I forgo the bonus that may be declared in January.
Got to fight for what you are worth. If you think you are underpaid just apply out. There are many firms who will be willing to take a 3PQE who only wants 6-7k lol so no big loss there.

As for notice period, some firms would prefer shorter notice, so you might lose out slightly if you tell them 3 mths (although that is quite standard for our industry).
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