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  #18371 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 12:16 PM
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DRD is really cmi. Just a crap franchise with low standard lawyers.
Sounds like some jelly big4 lawyers who didnt get on the deals that DRD are on 😌

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  #18372 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 12:20 PM
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Sounds like some jelly big4 lawyers who didnt get on the deals that DRD are on 😌
On a serious note, Iím hoping to jump to DRD Corp. Are they hiring? 2PQE from a small firm.

Kinda tired of being milked at low salary.

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  #18373 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 12:29 PM
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To all the young lawyers or lawyers to be dreaming about the big international firm move. I hope to offer you some perspective.

In terms of background, I am an oxbridge grad and a former JLC. I joined the disputes team in a JLV in a very prominent international firm after my JLC stint. The firm I joined was known for having the cream of the crop, many other JLCs were in the team apart from me.

It started enough. The salary was great - 20k+ even as a fairly junior associate. Fairly good work as there was an SC, and the network was also helpful in providing work.

Unfortunately, the firm then underwent a redirection where profitability took on paramount importance. The disputes team had expanded to more than 20 members, all high paying, and it was difficult to justify that continued expense. Soon, we heard of some more senior members being asked to leave, some were sent on secondment to be put on pasture. We were told to keep our head down and we would be taken care of amidst all of this.

But as things transpired, the axe ultimately fell. A few of us were told individually that the firm could no longer sustain all of us. We were given some time to find an alternative practice or to in house, and to be fair if the preference was for the latter, the partner did his best to assist with referrals and connections.

It was a sobering experience - from feeling like the cream of the crop all my career to being discarded. By this time I was a fairly senior associate, and it was difficult to find any firm willing to take anywhere near my salary. The Big 4 generally prefer to promote and push up their own associates. International firm roles at this seniority in disputes are few and far between. As for smaller firms, the conversation always becomes about how much book once had. How good I am with the law, or the fact I am JLC, didn't seem to matter.

A few of us ended up at a mid size firm to some media attention. It was a sobering experience. Apart from the lower salary, the "local" way of dong things, the lack of international standards, even the reduced insurance coverage, made me feel like a fish outside water. The quality of work is also greatly diminished.

This is not so much a lament but a caution to all the younger lawyers out there. Don't be taken in by cravath rates. Economics always dictate in the end. The right question is - how can the firm afford my 35k/m salary, and what are the prospects for me 5 years down, or even next year?
I don't see how this is a "cautionary tale". Just take the Cravath rates when you can. If and when the economy tanks or the firm decides to downsize, go for the local firms or in-house roles. The only thing you suffer is a bruised ego, while you would have stored up a good amount of dough, unlike your peers that started their careers in a miserly local firm.

Young lawyers, or in fact, fresh grads everywhere will do well to remember the adage "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush". It's usually not wise to suffer shitty pay and terrible work culture for a "possibility" of equity partnership almost 15 to 20 years down the road. Employers love dangling this carrot before their armies of donkeys. With one carrot, the employer can motivate 20-100 donkeys to work their asses off for 3-20 years.

Keep your eyes peeled. Make informed decisions.

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  #18374 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 01:37 PM
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To all the young lawyers or lawyers to be dreaming about the big international firm move. I hope to offer you some perspective.

In terms of background, I am an oxbridge grad and a former JLC. I joined the disputes team in a JLV in a very prominent international firm after my JLC stint. The firm I joined was known for having the cream of the crop, many other JLCs were in the team apart from me.

It started enough. The salary was great - 20k+ even as a fairly junior associate. Fairly good work as there was an SC, and the network was also helpful in providing work.

Unfortunately, the firm then underwent a redirection where profitability took on paramount importance. The disputes team had expanded to more than 20 members, all high paying, and it was difficult to justify that continued expense. Soon, we heard of some more senior members being asked to leave, some were sent on secondment to be put on pasture. We were told to keep our head down and we would be taken care of amidst all of this.

But as things transpired, the axe ultimately fell. A few of us were told individually that the firm could no longer sustain all of us. We were given some time to find an alternative practice or to in house, and to be fair if the preference was for the latter, the partner did his best to assist with referrals and connections.

It was a sobering experience - from feeling like the cream of the crop all my career to being discarded. By this time I was a fairly senior associate, and it was difficult to find any firm willing to take anywhere near my salary. The Big 4 generally prefer to promote and push up their own associates. International firm roles at this seniority in disputes are few and far between. As for smaller firms, the conversation always becomes about how much book once had. How good I am with the law, or the fact I am JLC, didn't seem to matter.

A few of us ended up at a mid size firm to some media attention. It was a sobering experience. Apart from the lower salary, the "local" way of dong things, the lack of international standards, even the reduced insurance coverage, made me feel like a fish outside water. The quality of work is also greatly diminished.

This is not so much a lament but a caution to all the younger lawyers out there. Don't be taken in by cravath rates. Economics always dictate in the end. The right question is - how can the firm afford my 35k/m salary, and what are the prospects for me 5 years down, or even next year?
International firms are much more ruthless and usually have an "up or out" culture. That's how they stay so profitable in the first place. Unlike local firms, they don't promote you to partner just because you have reached a certain seniority and are reasonably competent. Nor can they afford to keep around a bunch of expensive senior associates indefinitely. So they will periodically cull their ranks and keep only the best, with the merely average (or even above average) being managed out.

That doesn't mean international firms are a bad place to be in, though. Even in the Big 4, there is no guarantee of making EP just because you reach a certain level of seniority. So you are better off going to an international firms, making a ton of money for X years, and then moving back to whichever local firm will take you once you reach your expiry date.
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  #18375 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 02:39 PM
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This is a very useful post and a somber reminder for all of us that not all that shines is gold.

I just hope the posting is real and not some individual trolling as said 'oxbridge grad and a former JLC' as the post includes many identifiers. If it is the latter, truly despicable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To all the young lawyers or lawyers to be dreaming about the big international firm move. I hope to offer you some perspective.

In terms of background, I am an oxbridge grad and a former JLC. I joined the disputes team in a JLV in a very prominent international firm after my JLC stint. The firm I joined was known for having the cream of the crop, many other JLCs were in the team apart from me.

It started enough. The salary was great - 20k+ even as a fairly junior associate. Fairly good work as there was an SC, and the network was also helpful in providing work.

Unfortunately, the firm then underwent a redirection where profitability took on paramount importance. The disputes team had expanded to more than 20 members, all high paying, and it was difficult to justify that continued expense. Soon, we heard of some more senior members being asked to leave, some were sent on secondment to be put on pasture. We were told to keep our head down and we would be taken care of amidst all of this.

But as things transpired, the axe ultimately fell. A few of us were told individually that the firm could no longer sustain all of us. We were given some time to find an alternative practice or to in house, and to be fair if the preference was for the latter, the partner did his best to assist with referrals and connections.

It was a sobering experience - from feeling like the cream of the crop all my career to being discarded. By this time I was a fairly senior associate, and it was difficult to find any firm willing to take anywhere near my salary. The Big 4 generally prefer to promote and push up their own associates. International firm roles at this seniority in disputes are few and far between. As for smaller firms, the conversation always becomes about how much book once had. How good I am with the law, or the fact I am JLC, didn't seem to matter.

A few of us ended up at a mid size firm to some media attention. It was a sobering experience. Apart from the lower salary, the "local" way of dong things, the lack of international standards, even the reduced insurance coverage, made me feel like a fish outside water. The quality of work is also greatly diminished.

This is not so much a lament but a caution to all the younger lawyers out there. Don't be taken in by cravath rates. Economics always dictate in the end. The right question is - how can the firm afford my 35k/m salary, and what are the prospects for me 5 years down, or even next year?
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  #18376 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 02:59 PM
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Which firms hire during the tc period? I want to jump from my current big 4 corp team where I start next year to an international firm. I can't seem to find anything on how it's done, my degree from nus is a fch
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  #18377 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 05:41 PM
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From the posts here, it seems like everybody is avoiding big 4?

some want to go international firm and others want to go inhouse roles.

Why is everybody moving away from Big 4?
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  #18378 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 05:54 PM
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From the posts here, it seems like everybody is avoiding big 4?

some want to go international firm and others want to go inhouse roles.

Why is everybody moving away from Big 4?
Same billable demands as intl firms but pay is way less. Does not make sense at all to work in big 4. Ang mohs are better bosses than asians too. Big4 culture is just bad.
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  #18379 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 11:39 PM
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Wong pee dropping in standard ever since their chairment left
The fact that this ST "ranking" doesn't include WongP in the top 5, and ranks CNP within a hairs' breath of A&G, makes it inherently incredible. What a joke.

Small firms like 1 or 2 of those ambulance chasing firms listed can milk their ST Best Law Firms ranking and splatter this logo all over their websites (or what passes off as their webpage) for all its worth for their Chinatown slip-and-fall clients

Any big firms that are shameless enough to place this accolade alongside reputable ones like IFLR, instantly minus points.
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  #18380 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2022, 11:46 PM
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This is a very useful post and a somber reminder for all of us that not all that shines is gold.

I just hope the posting is real and not some individual trolling as said 'oxbridge grad and a former JLC' as the post includes many identifiers. If it is the latter, truly despicable.
Seems quite detailed and specific a story. If you put 2 + 2 together, this sounds a lot like the Cavenagh team.

If the poster is trolling though, then it seems like quite a specific fixation on certain possible individuals lol
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