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  #17431 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 10:27 AM
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LLM only needed for academia.
Practice only need to be called with a basic law degree
A lot of european MNCs prefer an LLM - mainly because it is a basic degree in their countries (and free). The job descriptions for these roles almost always include a "prefer LLM, though not a pre-requisite". But when i joined, my joining announcement always referred to my LLM and not my LLB.

I believe an LLM from a good university would assist in certain in-house roles, but it is definitely not a pre-requisite.

It was a good to have for me... and tbh, i didn't take my LLM because i thought it would improve my chances at a job. I did it to take a break from practice and before moving in-house. I had already gotten offers for in-house positions prior to taking my LLM - but i wanted to take a break and travel a little before moving, so made the decision not to go in-house immediately.

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  #17432 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 10:30 AM
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A lot of european MNCs prefer an LLM - mainly because it is a basic degree in their countries (and free). The job descriptions for these roles almost always include a "prefer LLM, though not a pre-requisite". But when i joined, my joining announcement always referred to my LLM and not my LLB.

I believe an LLM from a good university would assist in certain in-house roles, but it is definitely not a pre-requisite.

It was a good to have for me... and tbh, i didn't take my LLM because i thought it would improve my chances at a job. I did it to take a break from practice and before moving in-house. I had already gotten offers for in-house positions prior to taking my LLM - but i wanted to take a break and travel a little before moving, so made the decision not to go in-house immediately.
To the OP, happy to answer more of your questions if you have any.

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  #17433 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 04:14 PM
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Is there anyone who has actually seen a tangible benefit in your private practice or inhouse careers with an LLM? I see some lawyers in practice with this and I'm contemplating taking an LLM. But how does it actually translate to a career advantage?
An LLM can be helpful in certain circumstances.

1) Your first law degree is from an undistinguished university and you want to class up your CV with a brand name university. It's a lot easier to get into the LLM programmes of top law schools (Oxbridge/T14 US) than their LLB/JD programmes.

2) You don't have good grades or CCAs from your first law degree and want a second chance to get good grades/CCAs - e.g. journal editor, moot participant (for disputes), leadership roles in student organisations.

3) You want to transition into a practice area in which you don't have prior experience (e.g. arbitration/tax/antitrust/IP) and want to demonstrate your passion for and knowledge of the field by doing an LLM focused on that area.

4) During the LLM itself, you might get into contact with professors/peers who could help you in your career (e.g. by making a referral). The Career Services department of your law school could also get you an interview with top international firms.

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  #17434 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 06:33 PM
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I am a big 4 NQ who is getting called in August , doing litigation.


I am wondering whether anybody else is doing mundane and tedious work like list of documents, standardize formatting and reviewing documents for typos, change spelling from american english to british english, standarize terms etc etc which are pretty low level imo.

I heard from my friend in UK, his firm has a team to do all these low level work. Like a team on call24/7 that do basically any document review and formatting. For example, you can send them a PDF and a spreadsheet with info for 200 investors, and you say “please recreate this PDF in Word, add margin of 30mm, then prep a copy for each of the 200 investors with their corresponding info, and send back the results in both Word and PDF” and they’ll work all night to get it to you. Then in the morning, 8am, they will get it out for you.

I read the CJ is asking for greater use of technology and its transformation in the industry. Perhaps for a start, local law firms can look into having a dedicated team to do these low level work?

So it is pretty good because I am going to be a real lawyer, and I am not supposed to do all these low level work.
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  #17435 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 06:55 PM
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I am a big 4 NQ who is getting called in August , doing litigation.


I am wondering whether anybody else is doing mundane and tedious work like list of documents, standardize formatting and reviewing documents for typos, change spelling from american english to british english, standarize terms etc etc which are pretty low level imo.

I heard from my friend in UK, his firm has a team to do all these low level work. Like a team on call24/7 that do basically any document review and formatting. For example, you can send them a PDF and a spreadsheet with info for 200 investors, and you say “please recreate this PDF in Word, add margin of 30mm, then prep a copy for each of the 200 investors with their corresponding info, and send back the results in both Word and PDF” and they’ll work all night to get it to you. Then in the morning, 8am, they will get it out for you.

I read the CJ is asking for greater use of technology and its transformation in the industry. Perhaps for a start, local law firms can look into having a dedicated team to do these low level work?

So it is pretty good because I am going to be a real lawyer, and I am not supposed to do all these low level work.
Wow Gen Zs these days. You think you are too good for checking typos and fixing formatting as an NQ? Newsflash: I still do that even as a 8+ year senior associate in a US firm, and it irks me when juniors refuse to get formatting right or learn how to use basic MS word functions (like applying styles or creating tables of contents).

Greater use of technology means you need to learn to use the technology yourself, not expect to outsource part of your job to another team.
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  #17436 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 06:56 PM
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I am a big 4 NQ who is getting called in August , doing litigation.


I am wondering whether anybody else is doing mundane and tedious work like list of documents, standardize formatting and reviewing documents for typos, change spelling from american english to british english, standarize terms etc etc which are pretty low level imo.

I heard from my friend in UK, his firm has a team to do all these low level work. Like a team on call24/7 that do basically any document review and formatting. For example, you can send them a PDF and a spreadsheet with info for 200 investors, and you say “please recreate this PDF in Word, add margin of 30mm, then prep a copy for each of the 200 investors with their corresponding info, and send back the results in both Word and PDF” and they’ll work all night to get it to you. Then in the morning, 8am, they will get it out for you.

I read the CJ is asking for greater use of technology and its transformation in the industry. Perhaps for a start, local law firms can look into having a dedicated team to do these low level work?

So it is pretty good because I am going to be a real lawyer, and I am not supposed to do all these low level work.
Local law firms won't do it. They would rather bill out the client at the associate rate doing low level mundane work. It brings in so much more money.
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  #17437 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 08:08 PM
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Wow Gen Zs these days. You think you are too good for checking typos and fixing formatting as an NQ? Newsflash: I still do that even as a 8+ year senior associate in a US firm, and it irks me when juniors refuse to get formatting right or learn how to use basic MS word functions (like applying styles or creating tables of contents).

Greater use of technology means you need to learn to use the technology yourself, not expect to outsource part of your job to another team.
As a 2/3 PQE, who has experience in B4 and London HQ of UK firms, it's definitely true that UK firms make much better use of support / outsourced staff / paralegals. It's an important cost-saving approach for a market with clients that are more sophisticated than SG-based clients.

But it also really irks me when trainees/juniors refuse to do these tasks and rely entirely on support staff. Ultimately, the buck stops somewhere, and if the senior associate is fixing the formatting or picking up typos (because the junior didn't properly brief the support staff and didn't check), then something has gone wrong.

I think it's about striking the right balance.
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  #17438 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 10:47 PM
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Wow Gen Zs these days. You think you are too good for checking typos and fixing formatting as an NQ? Newsflash: I still do that even as a 8+ year senior associate in a US firm, and it irks me when juniors refuse to get formatting right or learn how to use basic MS word functions (like applying styles or creating tables of contents).

Greater use of technology means you need to learn to use the technology yourself, not expect to outsource part of your job to another team.
You 8+ year still SA...loser la. My colleagues in Big 4 are aldy partners at 5th - 6th year
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  #17439 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 11:32 PM
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You 8+ year still SA...loser la. My colleagues in Big 4 are aldy partners at 5th - 6th year
Any one with a pulse can make salary partner in B4 lol. They still earn only half of what an SA in a US firm makes.


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  #17440 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2022, 11:43 PM
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An LLM can be helpful in certain circumstances.

1) Your first law degree is from an undistinguished university and you want to class up your CV with a brand name university. It's a lot easier to get into the LLM programmes of top law schools (Oxbridge/T14 US) than their LLB/JD programmes.

2) You don't have good grades or CCAs from your first law degree and want a second chance to get good grades/CCAs - e.g. journal editor, moot participant (for disputes), leadership roles in student organisations.

3) You want to transition into a practice area in which you don't have prior experience (e.g. arbitration/tax/antitrust/IP) and want to demonstrate your passion for and knowledge of the field by doing an LLM focused on that area.

4) During the LLM itself, you might get into contact with professors/peers who could help you in your career (e.g. by making a referral). The Career Services department of your law school could also get you an interview with top international firms.
Thanks very much for your input! As well as the poster who mentioned European MNCs. Very helpful points.
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