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  #16201 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 12:56 AM
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Medium sized law firm Assoc at the junior level.

I have learnt that a senior 1-2 years my senior (<3 PQE) has been saboing my Trainee for dealing in matters.

Whenever Trainee tries to assist, Senior has been cooking up stories to interfere.

I take a different approach. I would like to see Trainee excel and I hope Trainee will be retained.

Trainee produces fantastic work, but this Senior has been making things difficult, and myself included in things that involve us. I think the Senior sees Trainee as a threat, and wants to thumb Trainee down.

Partners are blissfully unaware. In fact, top down management has effectively encouraged unhealthy competition amongst the Assocs.

How can I help Trainee and toward Trainee's prospects of retention.
Only two ways to deal with such toxicity, one is to baotou to your boss that the SA is making things difficult and let the boss deal with it. But since you're asking here, you are probably afraid that will backfire on you since your senior is still a senior lol.

The second way is overwhelming praise of the trainee in front of your boss, like going out of your way to include the trainee and thanking him/her for the work + periodically letting boss know that trainee gave fantastic work on this or that.

If trainee ends up getting non-retained due to shenanigans, ask trainee to write you in as a reference for further applications (where you can help explain the situation) or help trainee write a recommendation letter.

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  #16202 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 11:29 AM
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Is there a genuine shortage of associates or is all the recent news merely hyperbolic?

If a reporter sets out to find and interview 20 lawyers who quit during 2020-2021, obviously he would think that people are quitting en masse. Or even worse, he is simply trying to substantiate the conclusions in his article because that's the editorial direction he has been given. But are those 20 vacancies being competed for by 200 other applicants? Lawyers have always been quitting even before Covid.

I would think that there should be a sharp rise in salaries like what's happening in London and the US, if there's a genuine war for talent or even just warm bodies.

The fact that I don't see it here, leads me to doubt that there's a real crunch.

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  #16203 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:28 PM
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Did you fail crim? They did the fail one question fail whole paper nonsense starting from last year.

I think the failure rate of at least 1 mod at first-go is around 30+%. From anectodal evidence, i.e. asking like 50 pax for my year, around 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 ish failed 1 mod. Last year it was mostly centered around crim failure.

However, the retest generally they try to pass everyone for part B, so the overall pass rate for part b is 99% for the past few years.

Failing a mod is never ideal, but the effect generally depends on which firm you are in, and more imptly whether boss likes you. If you already got a target on your back for bad work, boss can use this as excuse to let you go. Otherwise, unless you are in highly competitive firms, it is not a death sentence. Especially with the increasing shortage of lawyers.

Suck it up and tell the firm and hope for your boss's understanding. You will need time to prep for the exam, so you will need to maybe have 1 week or so break from TC. You can also try to sweep the thing entirely under the rug, but it's quite difficult since you still need to work in that case.

For what it's worth, some of the better students I knew (i.e. super good grades) failed one mod, whereas some of the bottom-tier students passed all at one shot, so there's also a bit of luck involved, along with whether you prepped correctly and whether you worked efficiently.
Failed another paper but it was similar with the one question fail whole thing fail 🥲 thanks for the advice though, hope it all goes well!

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  #16204 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:33 PM
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Only two ways to deal with such toxicity, one is to baotou to your boss that the SA is making things difficult and let the boss deal with it. But since you're asking here, you are probably afraid that will backfire on you since your senior is still a senior lol.

The second way is overwhelming praise of the trainee in front of your boss, like going out of your way to include the trainee and thanking him/her for the work + periodically letting boss know that trainee gave fantastic work on this or that.

If trainee ends up getting non-retained due to shenanigans, ask trainee to write you in as a reference for further applications (where you can help explain the situation) or help trainee write a recommendation letter.

Lawyering has lost its glory that it has in the past. Toxicity, abuse and dehumanisation are cankering private practice and the managing partners are tone deaf towards what happens. Not surprising because they care about the P&L and you are just a cog in the whole machineries.

I always told my trainees and juniors to take up another trade aside from lawyering. To my closer trainees or juniors, I guide them to code in python, using SQL databases, studying the CFA and CAIA, doing Bain or McKinsey consulting framework exercises, as well as taking up cybersecurity certs such as the CISA/CCISP.

STOP incarcerating yourself in the legal bubble. And Don't, I repeat, don't make yourself an exorbitant admin person, when your job can actually be done by a paralegal or anyone without a law degree. They just need on the job training to master the skills that you have, if any.
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  #16205 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:38 PM
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Lawyering has lost its glory that it has in the past. Toxicity, abuse and dehumanisation are cankering private practice and the managing partners are tone deaf towards what happens. Not surprising because they care about the P&L and you are just a cog in the whole machineries.

I always told my trainees and juniors to take up another trade aside from lawyering. To my closer trainees or juniors, I guide them to code in python, using SQL databases, studying the CFA and CAIA, doing Bain or McKinsey consulting framework exercises, as well as taking up cybersecurity certs such as the CISA/CCISP.

STOP incarcerating yourself in the legal bubble. And Don't, I repeat, don't make yourself an exorbitant admin person, when your job can actually be done by a paralegal or anyone without a law degree. They just need on the job training to master the skills that you have, if any.
So true, if you can lawyer in UK without a law degree, idk why sg or any Asian countries can't do that? Is it because lawyers in Asia are too egoistic,? Or is it Asian brains are wired more inferiorly than the UK counterpart and hence need a degree to rewire their brains to prepare for the legal career?
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  #16206 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:46 PM
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[url=s://.lawclub.com/]lawyers[/ are getting good saleries
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  #16207 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2022, 08:32 PM
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So true, if you can lawyer in UK without a law degree, idk why sg or any Asian countries can't do that? Is it because lawyers in Asia are too egoistic,? Or is it Asian brains are wired more inferiorly than the UK counterpart and hence need a degree to rewire their brains to prepare for the legal career?
UK and Ireland are the only major jurisdictions I know that allow non-law degree grads to convert to law with a GDL (now SQE) cram course. It is the exception rather than the norm.

So your dig at "Asian brain" is entirely unnecessary.

You might as well accuse North Americans, who can only study law at the post-grad level, of being too dense and unable to handle law at the undergrad level.
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  #16208 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2022, 12:54 AM
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With big 4s now bleeding associates, anyone here willing to share their experience in big 4? Average hours, intensity, expectations etc? Are partners still expecting the sky?
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  #16209 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2022, 05:37 AM
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Big 4
expectations are always high not just from partners but also competition from fellow peers
billables, profits and supporting partners is what you are there for
toxic for sure
shouting and crying is uncommon
seniors unlikely to help since it doesn’t go to billables
long hours
constant pressure to turn around fast
living through anxiety most days is really bad for physical and mental health

so once somebody leaves, someone new will just come in to replace
- a matter of statistics.

/ repeat
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  #16210 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2022, 01:37 PM
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Very long hours

Paid above market rate, but when you divide by the hours it is not worth it. If mid sized pays x and you go home at 6, B4 should pay 2x so you go home at 3am. Not paid enough even with the hikes.

Toxic all around. No incentive to fix longstanding problems in management style or environment as people queue up to join

Screaming common for some B4, got stories of throwing objects but I nv experience
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