Lawyer Salary - Page 1595 - Salary.sg Forums
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Income and Jobs

Income and Jobs Discuss jobs, career options and of course salaries




Lawyer Salary

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #15941 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:02 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If corp generally pays more, what's the point of going into disputes then even if you are super good at the law?
i don't have the statistics but my feel is that there's generally more litigation/general solicitor jobs (e.g. your average Chinatown/boutique firm) out there compared to pure corporate law gigs (e.g. your average big law firm, and even then there's really only a couple of local law firms that dominate).

also, believe it or not there are quite a number of disputes lawyers who really enjoy doing disputes work and can't imagine doing anything else. Perhaps it might be a lack of imagination, but hey far be it from me to say.

Reply With Quote
  #15942 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:11 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
i don't have the statistics but my feel is that there's generally more litigation/general solicitor jobs (e.g. your average Chinatown/boutique firm) out there compared to pure corporate law gigs (e.g. your average big law firm, and even then there's really only a couple of local law firms that dominate).

also, believe it or not there are quite a number of disputes lawyers who really enjoy doing disputes work and can't imagine doing anything else. Perhaps it might be a lack of imagination, but hey far be it from me to say.
this goes without saying.

One should not forget also that some corporate work, to an extent, can be taken inhouse and kept there. Which reduces the volume of work available for external corp counsel.

You seldom see companies except the largest corporations with dedicated inhouse disputes teams. Even then, these guys cannot or wouldn't represent the company in actual court proceedings or arbi proceedings and need external disputes counsel.

Reply With Quote
  #15943 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 10:18 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Didn't he put the pay at 6.5k for NQs, pretty good for a small firm tbh.
It’s a red flag tbh. Look at how high the turnover of their assocs is (none of the ppl on the firm’s “About” page are still with the firm. Read their glassdoor too. Clearly pay is not keeping them.

Reply With Quote
  #15944 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 10:23 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Hi anyone knows if the B4 will advertise their vacancy for NQ on mycareersfuture? Had been monitoring that page for a couple of months and only saw small medium firm publishing vacancies.....offering salary ~4.5k. Pathetic
Reply With Quote
  #15945 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 10:39 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi anyone knows if the B4 will advertise their vacancy for NQ on mycareersfuture? Had been monitoring that page for a couple of months and only saw small medium firm publishing vacancies.....offering salary ~4.5k. Pathetic
B4 have enough trainees every year.
Unless you are JLC or publishing non-stop
Reply With Quote
  #15946 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 11:32 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi anyone knows if the B4 will advertise their vacancy for NQ on mycareersfuture? Had been monitoring that page for a couple of months and only saw small medium firm publishing vacancies.....offering salary ~4.5k. Pathetic
The b4 firms have advertised vacancies on mycareerfuture and lawsoccareers so many times in the past year (it's averaging at least 1-2 b4 posting per month).

How have you missed it? Btw they don't call for NQs in general, just apply to the 1PQE roles, since if you were called in Aug 2021, you start being 1PQE in Jan 2022.
Reply With Quote

  #15947 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 02:51 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Junior lawyers are leaving practice not because of their lack of grit, the poor work life balance, or unreasonable clients or bosses. People who phrase the issue as such are missing the other side of the equation.

The reality is each generation of lawyers has to work harder, for much longer, for a smaller share of the pie. Let me explain what I mean.

Michael Hwang SC described his experience as a junior lawyer back in 1968 as follows: “Courier services had not yet started operations, and overseas telephone calls were pretty expensive by today’s standards, so everything proceeded at a certain pace, especially if there was correspondence with someone overseas. Working life was therefore somewhat leisurely, which meant that working late was not usually required. I was therefore able to enjoy a reasonable social life after work, although much of that time was spent by me in teaching part time at the Law School.”

Ever since Michael Hwang SC's time, we have seen lots of technological advances. It is well documented that working hours have increased across industries generally and in the legal industry in particular. The first iPhone was only introduced 14 years ago. Prior to that it was easier to disconnect from work.

It is recently quite common recently to see LinkedIn posts about senior lawyers having to "work hard too". Unfortunately people seem to overlook the fact that, by design or otherwise, junior lawyers are now expected to work harder with fewer quality breaks because it is now harder to disconnect from work. It is well documented in Singapore and overseas that the actual time billed by lawyers has been increasing year after year.

It is also worth noting that when senior lawyers had to work hard in the past, they did so in a context where there was a clear path to partnership. Or they were already partners! By that I mean real partners. A quick review of the CV of any senior lawyer will show you how early those senior lawyers made partner. Working hard in that context means putting money directly into your pockets. Working hard in today's context means putting money into other people's pockets.

Unfortunately, people seem to again conveniently overlook the fact that the work/reward ratio of working hard as a 6 PQE partner or a 4 PQE soon-to-be partner is different from a 4 PQE associate.

On this note, it now takes a junior lawyer much longer to reach (real) partnership level, and even after slogging for a long time, the prospects of making partner are no longer clear. Tell any junior lawyer that if they work hard for 6 years, they will get the chance to flip a coin, and if the coin lands on head, they will definitely become an equity partner. I can assure you that the attrition rate would definitely slow down. The reality however is that the chances of making (real) partner seem to be worse than a coin flip. This is also well documented.

So, not only do junior lawyers have to work hard for much longer, they are also paid terribly in relative terms. 20 years ago, pupils had to serve 6 months of pupillage and received $2,000 in pupil's allowance. The median wage then was about $2,000. Soon, trainees will be required to serve a training contract of 1 year and there is no news as to whether the prevailing market trainee allowance of $2,000 will be revised upwards. The median wage today is $4,500. People who were formerly trainees and now partners are wilfully blind to this fact.

In short, the story of a junior lawyer in a local firm is this.

As a trainee, the soon-to-be junior lawyer has to receive more than half of what their partners used to receive and train for twice as long. After the junior lawyer gets called, they have to work much harder in terms of volume and intensity compared to what their partners used to do as junior lawyers. The junior lawyer also has much less breaks compared to what their partners used to have. And the junior lawyer would have to slog for a much longer time before they get a chance of making (salaried) partner.

This is in a context where opportunities are aplenty for a young and smart person.

No wonder people are leaving. It is not because they cannot take the hard work or the toxic culture. It is because it is not worth it.
Thank you for posting this. It now makes so much sense that older lawyers are very passionate about the law and their careers. I guess when the rewards are well worth your efforts, it is much easier to stay passionate.

I have attended several recruitment talks where older lawyers would say that it is a "calling" and young people need to have "passion".

If one is cynical, one might say that the vague words like "calling" and "passion" are just another way of hoodwinking bright-eyed graduates because law firms have nothing else to offer. Exploitative and penny pinching practices, poor salary and allowance compared to the past, international firms, other sectors like tech and finance, and soul sucking hours with no breaks. Passion solves everything when we can't treat you right!
Reply With Quote
  #15948 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 04:09 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thank you for posting this. It now makes so much sense that older lawyers are very passionate about the law and their careers. I guess when the rewards are well worth your efforts, it is much easier to stay passionate.

I have attended several recruitment talks where older lawyers would say that it is a "calling" and young people need to have "passion".

If one is cynical, one might say that the vague words like "calling" and "passion" are just another way of hoodwinking bright-eyed graduates because law firms have nothing else to offer. Exploitative and penny pinching practices, poor salary and allowance compared to the past, international firms, other sectors like tech and finance, and soul sucking hours with no breaks. Passion solves everything when we can't treat you right!
They are just gaslighting you. It is not a problem with the profession or firm, instead it is a problem with you and your lack of passion/grit and your love for things outside of law such as a husband/wife, children and side hustles.
Reply With Quote
  #15949 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 07:14 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Smile

Escaping the drudgery of lawyering. I somehow regret taking my LLB. LLB degree limits my career options, unlike other BA, BSc degrees. The first thing my employer asked is why I even bother to do an LLB if i don't wanna do law. This is when I realised I needed to begin from square one. Even if you try legal tech, you also no experience in sales, marketing, operation. Zero programming skills too. Now I felt pathetic and stuck
Reply With Quote
  #15950 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2022, 07:44 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Escaping the drudgery of lawyering. I somehow regret taking my LLB. LLB degree limits my career options, unlike other BA, BSc degrees. The first thing my employer asked is why I even bother to do an LLB if i don't wanna do law. This is when I realised I needed to begin from square one. Even if you try legal tech, you also no experience in sales, marketing, operation. Zero programming skills too. Now I felt pathetic and stuck
The best part of this post is that BA, BSc doesn't limit your career options - LOL. Try job hunting having a generic bachelors, seriously. It is NO better than your LLB and most likely worse
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
advocate, law, lawyer, legal, solicitor

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From Lawyer Insider: Life is Glamorous but Unsatisfying Salary.sg Income and Jobs 31 15-01-2018 12:40 PM

» 30 Recent Threads
Compare civil service salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
16,529 Replies, 13,007,624 Views
Civil Svc/ Statboard - Typical... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,564 Replies, 4,019,750 Views
Any Ministry or Statboard still... ( 1 2 3)
22 Replies, 14,457 Views
INL Agency? Brand Communication...
6 Replies, 770 Views
DSO (under Mindef) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
54 Replies, 71,895 Views
Career as Teacher ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
11,813 Replies, 7,256,880 Views
Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
18,684 Replies, 5,590,475 Views
How much are you earning per annum? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
14,390 Replies, 6,662,013 Views
IMDA (under MCI) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,439 Replies, 728,632 Views
Best Stat board/Ministry ( 1 2 3)
22 Replies, 38,959 Views
ST Electronics ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,971 Replies, 1,710,933 Views
For those with 2-5 YOE, what is... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,204 Replies, 481,929 Views
Rakuten Software Engineer (Fresh... ( 1 2)
10 Replies, 6,396 Views
MFA- Foreign Service... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
64 Replies, 91,285 Views
DSTA (under Mindef) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,684 Replies, 1,514,112 Views
MINDEF DXO (All FAQ on it) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,115 Replies, 4,956,370 Views
Working in SIT (Singapore...
4 Replies, 6,134 Views
Lawyer Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
21,458 Replies, 10,900,424 Views
Salary for JPM Summer Analyst
0 Replies, 55 Views
MAS for Mid Career Professionals ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,349 Replies, 1,198,374 Views
Roles in accenture singapore ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
8,188 Replies, 2,599,930 Views
Hospital (Private or Public)... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
977 Replies, 507,395 Views
Engineer Pay ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
668 Replies, 487,007 Views
LTA (Land Transport Authority) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
925 Replies, 492,809 Views
How is life as a doctor in... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
7,609 Replies, 3,670,074 Views
Early Retirement ( 1 2 3)
22 Replies, 18,103 Views
GovTech ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,669 Replies, 2,660,542 Views
HSBC Bank ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
63 Replies, 120,004 Views
UOB Management Associate Program ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,491 Replies, 838,654 Views
NCS (SingTel subsidiary) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,586 Replies, 1,271,052 Views
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2