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  #15861 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 07:39 PM
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12k inhouse in the finance industry. How am i doing?
Depends. PQE?

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  #15862 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 07:42 PM
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From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?

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  #15863 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?
Yes but not recession proof (lmao)

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  #15864 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?
Probably some raises for #1-#4 since.
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  #15865 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?
Where does Jones Day fit in?
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  #15866 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2022, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?
In 2021, alot of the Int-firm FLAs actually paid slightly above Big4 (although that may not be true now with the payraise).

NRF ascendant side pay sucks. NRF and BMWL don't pay much more than b4 now, it's almost the same give or take 500 bucks, so I'd just lump them together.

Other than that the payscale seems accurate.
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  #15867 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2022, 09:14 AM
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What's the best international firm if you're a disputes lawyer? None of the firms paying Milbank scale seem to do arbi...
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  #15868 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2022, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
From much earlier on in the forum:

The pecking order of firms in terms of pay for a junior is something like this:

1. US White Shoe Firms (eg Milbank, MoFo, LW, W&C) - these pay over 20k per month but only usually start taking in juniors at 2 PQE and beyond (SG scale)
2. Other US firms (e.g. Dechert) - less than White Shoe Firms but more than Magic/Silver Circle firms (not confirmed)
3. UK Magic or Silver Circle firms (e.g. CC, Links, HSF, A&O, Ashurst, Hogan Lowells - note, L&L side not counted) - these pay around 12-13k per month for 2 PQE (SG scale)
4. BMWL, NRF, Clyde - these pay around 8-10k for 2PQE (not sure about Ascendant though)
5. Big 4 - these pay about 7-8k for 2PQE
6. Firms like WKW, Dentons, TSMP, and other boutiques (e.g. Blackoak or the accounting-linked law firms) pay similar or slightly less than Big 4. These also include some JVs like MPillay and Morgan Lewis).
7. Then you have everyone else. Some of the JVs also fall in this tier like EHE or DMS.


Still true?
This is quite outdated (and some parts weren't true in the first place).

Each of the US firms take different approaches to determining pay for their SG assocs. They do NOT peg to the London or NY scales. They also each have their own methods for discounting PQE, and they can also offer different amounts based on the individual. There is really no way to say for sure whether a US firm will pay you Cravath, MC level or lower.

The only meaningful way to compare across the international firms is to use a specific PQE (SG) as a reference. At the 1-2 PQE (SG) mark, after the recent pay raises, the MCs (which follow the UK scale strictly) are pretty much the top payers in the SG market even compared to the US firms. 4-5 PQE (SG) onwards, certain US firms become the best paying because you would usually at that point be put on the Cravath scale given to their US / London assocs.
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  #15869 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2022, 10:51 AM
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NRF and BMWL don't pay much more than b4 now, it's almost the same give or take 500 bucks, so I'd just lump them together.

Other than that the payscale seems accurate.
NRF here refers to Ascendant side or the international side? I find it hard to believe international side isn't paying at least UK rates.
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  #15870 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2022, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
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What's the best international firm if you're a disputes lawyer? None of the firms paying Milbank scale seem to do arbi...
Dechert or Jones Day in SG
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