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  #15491 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 11:08 AM
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If you do snag pupillage and tenancy, and should the stars align sufficiently for (1) you to last long enough in practice, (2) your clerks to throw interesting cases your way, and (3) you to acquit yourself well in arguing them, you may well just make QC.

Statistically, there is a higher chance of making QC than SC. There is a list of all appointed SCs ever. Contrast that with the no that get admitted as A&S here every year since they started appointing SCs. You have a better shot at winning toto.

The difficulty is even becoming a practising barrister in the first place. You have all the hurdles identified to clear, and they are neither wrong nor inconsiderable.

If you can, please watch QCs and SCs in action. Courts have public galleries, if you didn't already know, and the hearing lists are also public info. Go spend some time in the courts, watch how the masters work their magic, realise how much time/experience that that requires, and come away inspired to try yourself.
A lot of wisdom in this. Iíve seen both QCs and SCs in action. Really quite mesmerizing. I donít think either is better or worse than the other in terms of standards but both were brilliant in their own ways.

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  #15492 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 11:31 AM
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A lot of wisdom in this. Iíve seen both QCs and SCs in action. Really quite mesmerizing. I donít think either is better or worse than the other in terms of standards but both were brilliant in their own ways.
Agreed and just to add on, while there are more competitors in Singapore, it is easier to stand out with your credentials (insofar as it matters, which looking at the history of appointments I doubt) you're competing against 2.2s 2.1s and FCHs in Singapore versus a confined pool of FCH BCL in the UK.

Not sure what QC numbers are. 2021 - 2429 senior lawyers. Assume half do transactional work only (this is just for estimation, I also note Section 30(8) of the LPA as alluded to in previous posts) and only within the senior lawyer category. 94/1200 - 7.83% is my estimation without exact numbers. Only as a helpful but very rough figure.

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  #15493 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 11:32 AM
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Agreed and just to add on, while there are more competitors in Singapore, it is easier to stand out with your credentials (insofar as it matters, which looking at the history of appointments I doubt) you're competing against 2.2s 2.1s and FCHs in Singapore versus a confined pool of FCH BCL in the UK.

Not sure what QC numbers are. 2021 - 2429 senior lawyers. Assume half do transactional work only (this is just for estimation, I also note Section 30(8) of the LPA as alluded to in previous posts) and only within the senior lawyer category. 94/1200 - 7.83% is my estimation without exact numbers. Only as a helpful but very rough figure.
*numbers are for SCs. Should have spaced barred the estimation.

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  #15494 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 12:12 PM
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Agreed and just to add on, while there are more competitors in Singapore, it is easier to stand out with your credentials (insofar as it matters, which looking at the history of appointments I doubt) you're competing against 2.2s 2.1s and FCHs in Singapore versus a confined pool of FCH BCL in the UK.

Not sure what QC numbers are. 2021 - 2429 senior lawyers. Assume half do transactional work only (this is just for estimation, I also note Section 30(8) of the LPA as alluded to in previous posts) and only within the senior lawyer category. 94/1200 - 7.83% is my estimation without exact numbers. Only as a helpful but very rough figure.
Actually, itís a bit of a fallacy that barristers are all FCHs, BCL etc. Most of those who are not in London actually have very average even lower than average results from mid-tier schools. It is the London Chambers that require that profile. Check out any Manchester or Birmingham Chambers and you will see what I mean. Though truthfully it is also where all the QC appointments go. But keep that in mind when looking at the numbers so you donít assume every barrister has a UK public school FCH BCL background. They ímore often than not donít. But the ones we Singaporeans see overwhelmingly do. In the same way UK lawyers probably wonít know any of the HDB neighborhood lawyer but will know some of our top SCs.

In UK, this article: s://.thelawyerportal.com/barrister/what-is-a-queens-counsel-barrister-how-to-become-one/ suggests that ďAs of 2017, there were around 17,000 barristers in England and Wales, of which approximately 10% were QCsĒ. If we assume half of them are junior barristers as the above poster assumed with the SG bar, then 20% of senior barristers get appointed. Which is about three times more likely than Singapore if the above stats are correct. Take all of this with a lot of salt though as so much of what I stated and the previous poster stated is mired in speculation.
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  #15495 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 04:53 PM
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If lawyers work till 2am and wake at 530am, why do they have time to post replies here?
Is this true?
Do law firm bosses wake at 530am?
My firm partner doesn't work till 2am?
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  #15496 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 06:56 PM
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Is this true?
Do law firm bosses wake at 530am?
My firm partner doesn't work till 2am?
Lol big Law Firm partners terrify associates into working till 10pm-2am so that they can go home at 6pm. If not they can't get their bonuses and work-life balance.

The favourite refrain of some partners is.. "I already did my time last time, now it's your turn", like some macabre and perverse "I suffered so you suffer now" game.

Also, most partners had it much easier as assocs than now due to the alleged "glut" a few years ago (and their pay was "higher" as opposed to a stagnated wage now).
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  #15497 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:08 PM
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Genuine question for someone with a TC from a big 4 graduating this year. With the recent salary raises to around 6 to 7k for first yearers, is law still a good career choice despite all the overtime and stress from the job? I mean taking into account both the remuneration and working conditions holistically.

Am on track for second upper local law sch . Even if I pivot to another industry, I would be judged as a second upper grad alongside those with the same class of honors from other degrees right. In other words not particularly high flying. I should stick it out until call and leave if i don't like practice?
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  #15498 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 10:47 PM
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Genuine question for someone with a TC from a big 4 graduating this year. With the recent salary raises to around 6 to 7k for first yearers, is law still a good career choice despite all the overtime and stress from the job? I mean taking into account both the remuneration and working conditions holistically.

Am on track for second upper local law sch . Even if I pivot to another industry, I would be judged as a second upper grad alongside those with the same class of honors from other degrees right. In other words not particularly high flying. I should stick it out until call and leave if i don't like practice?
Stick it out and get called, you'll at least have an avenue to go back to law (assuming you leave right after).

Working conditions suck, but pay is good. It's just that most people do not want such a lifestyle.
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  #15499 (permalink)  
Old 19-01-2022, 07:14 AM
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I would say you get called first then leave.

practice is not a pleasant place to be in

the stress and hours are not sustainable

you may not work till 2am
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  #15500 (permalink)  
Old 19-01-2022, 10:28 AM
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Hi,

I am a trainee at a small firm and am wondering what is the current market pay for associates in a small firm around CBD area?

Also whether the bigger firms are a good place to start out as a fresh graduate or would staying in a small firm be a better place? (The small firm has good work life balance but I am afraid I might get very low pay hence finding out the market rate) Thanks!!
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