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  #15481 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 06:16 AM
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Race is difficult to even statistically measure so you can't actually verify whether it's true. But general sentiment wise I'd agree.

Academics alone, and looking at the 2020 batch:

1. Glasgow, Sciences Po

2. Edinburgh

3. Oxford FCH, Yale

4. Cambridge double starred first, Yale

5. UCL, Cambridge LLM

Please do your research by looking at the recent joiners.. if not idk how you're going to be SC or QC. Okay anyway nice chat I'm off I cba doing research for an SC or QC aspirant who can't look up the demographics instead of asking here.
Wow, for lawyers itís shocking that you guys sure canít read. This entire thread has been like a first year lawyer dealing with a client - telling the client the law repeatedly without actually answering the legal issue the client has. Hope you guys are better at work than advice. The initial poster specifically appeared to ask you to assume he will get in, not to repeatedly state that he needs a BCL, Oxbridge et al. So if one assumes he had gone in, gotten a pupilage place, a tenancy and what not, what are his odds of eventually becoming QC. If you check online, it does suggest upwards of 10+% of barristers become QC. Those are not especially bad odds. They are not especially bad odds in contrast with an AAS in Singapore becoming SC, with only 94 SC ever conferred.

Given its historical origins however, I think most would choose QC over SC. But statistically, it is probably more difficult to get SC as an AAS than it is to be a QC in the UK if you were a barrister. And if you were Oxbridge, FCH, BCL, Harvard LLM, blah blah blah and are sure you can get into a top set in London, your chances of getting a QC eventually many years down the road are not low. Even as an Asian. Check out some of the leading sets in London. Many have Asian QCs and the profile is slowly changing to be more diverse.



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  #15482 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:02 AM
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So if one assumes he had gone in, gotten a pupilage place, a tenancy and what not, what are his odds of eventually becoming QC. If you check online, it does suggest upwards of 10+% of barristers become QC. Those are not especially bad odds. They are not especially bad odds in contrast with an AAS in Singapore becoming SC, with only 94 SC ever conferred.
Nothing wrong with discussing the assumptions.

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  #15483 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:12 AM
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Nothing wrong with discussing the assumptions.
I hope thatís not how you advise clients in real life, by focusing on his assumptions and entirely ignoring the legal issue your client actually poses.

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  #15484 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:24 AM
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Wow, for lawyers itís shocking that you guys sure canít read. This entire thread has been like a first year lawyer dealing with a client - telling the client the law repeatedly without actually answering the legal issue the client has. Hope you guys are better at work than advice. The initial poster specifically appeared to ask you to assume he will get in, not to repeatedly state that he needs a BCL, Oxbridge et al. So if one assumes he had gone in, gotten a pupilage place, a tenancy and what not, what are his odds of eventually becoming QC. If you check online, it does suggest upwards of 10+% of barristers become QC. Those are not especially bad odds. They are not especially bad odds in contrast with an AAS in Singapore becoming SC, with only 94 SC ever conferred.

Given its historical origins however, I think most would choose QC over SC. But statistically, it is probably more difficult to get SC as an AAS than it is to be a QC in the UK if you were a barrister. And if you were Oxbridge, FCH, BCL, Harvard LLM, blah blah blah and are sure you can get into a top set in London, your chances of getting a QC eventually many years down the road are not low. Even as an Asian. Check out some of the leading sets in London. Many have Asian QCs and the profile is slowly changing to be more diverse.
Poster is asking how to improve his chances of becoming QC as an Asian. No one is saying BAME do not stand a chance. Itís about how to raise his/her chances.
While not a guarantee of success, the minimum is a Cambridge BA/LLM or Oxford BA/BCL.
After that itís your performance at the English bar.
In international arbitration circuits, itís great to be a QC but thatís also because there are more QCs around.
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  #15485 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:41 AM
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Poster is asking how to improve his chances of becoming QC as an Asian. No one is saying BAME do not stand a chance. Itís about how to raise his/her chances.
While not a guarantee of success, the minimum is a Cambridge BA/LLM or Oxford BA/BCL.
After that itís your performance at the English bar.
In international arbitration circuits, itís great to be a QC but thatís also because there are more QCs around.
Actually, for Asians, itís not actually as difficult to make Queen Counsel as we all make it seem. Iím surprised so many people here talk in a vacuum. Itís not easy certainly but not the Everest like challenge that so many here seem to portray it to be.

Source: s://.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/changing-the-picture-diversity-at-silk-level
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  #15486 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 08:43 AM
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Actually, for Asians, itís not actually as difficult to make Queen Counsel as we all make it seem. Iím surprised so many people here talk in a vacuum. Itís not easy certainly but not the Everest like challenge that so many here seem to portray it to be.

Source: s://.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/changing-the-picture-diversity-at-silk-level
Iím the above poster - put the wrong link as source.

It should've been this source: s://.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/who-gets-silk-2019

Sorry
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  #15487 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 09:07 AM
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I hope thatís not how you advise clients in real life, by focusing on his assumptions and entirely ignoring the legal issue your client actually poses.
I'm not advising clients now, am I?

The discussion moved from QC/SC percentages to chances of even securing pupilage as an Asian at first instance. I'm merely replying to that.


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  #15488 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 09:51 AM
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Poster is asking how to improve his chances of becoming QC as an Asian. No one is saying BAME do not stand a chance. Itís about how to raise his/her chances.
While not a guarantee of success, the minimum is a Cambridge BA/LLM or Oxford BA/BCL.
After that itís your performance at the English bar.
In international arbitration circuits, itís great to be a QC but thatís also because there are more QCs around.
Marry some random white guy on the dole for his last name? Problem solved.


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  #15489 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 09:54 AM
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If lawyers work till 2am and wake at 530am, why do they have time to post replies here?

---

Behind the exodus of junior lawyers blah blah
Tldr - The more you whine, the more our Government will import more foreigners to replace you.
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  #15490 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2022, 11:03 AM
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If you do snag pupillage and tenancy, and should the stars align sufficiently for (1) you to last long enough in practice, (2) your clerks to throw interesting cases your way, and (3) you to acquit yourself well in arguing them, you may well just make QC.

Statistically, there is a higher chance of making QC than SC. There is a list of all appointed SCs ever. Contrast that with the no that get admitted as A&S here every year since they started appointing SCs. You have a better shot at winning toto.

The difficulty is even becoming a practising barrister in the first place. You have all the hurdles identified to clear, and they are neither wrong nor inconsiderable.

If you can, please watch QCs and SCs in action. Courts have public galleries, if you didn't already know, and the hearing lists are also public info. Go spend some time in the courts, watch how the masters work their magic, realise how much time/experience that that requires, and come away inspired to try yourself.
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