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  #14231 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 11:31 AM
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Go talk to the partners. There’s seriously ZERO difference between anyone from NQ to 3 PQE.
If can pay peanuts to someone, no reason for them to keep the 2 PQE when much cheaper to employ trainees.
In my experience the junior associates start to shine around the 1.5 year mark, assuming they've trained with us under the level of our expectations and rigour. That's when they're more or less familiar with environment and truly start to appreciate the bigger picture of the matter and not just discrete parts of it.

With the new 1 year TC, this will be brought forward to ~ 0.5 PQE. Why wouldn't the firm keep them around to make full use of their enhanced capabilities? There's still couple more good years when they're still considered relatively low PQE and not too expensive.

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  #14232 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 12:30 PM
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Lol I'm not sure which firm you're at, but there's a big difference between even 1-2PQE and Trainee/NQ.
Keep telling urself that there’s a reason why big4 pays peanuts to even your 2PQE, even with your alleged “big difference”.

Money talks. If difference in monetary remuneration is so small (peanuts to peanuts), then that’s telling

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  #14233 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 12:34 PM
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everyone say b4 pay peanuts.... but if i wanna do dispute resolution, where to earn more and still get good training?

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  #14234 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 12:52 PM
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everyone say b4 pay peanuts.... but if i wanna do dispute resolution, where to earn more and still get good training?
if you had the grades you wouldn't have to ask

nobody needs to ask which premier league team can afford to pay more and has the best training


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  #14235 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 12:57 PM
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if you had the grades you wouldn't have to ask

nobody needs to ask which premier league team can afford to pay more and has the best training
I am still unsure whether Man U or Liverpool has better training...
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  #14236 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 01:53 PM
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Thoughts on whether it is necessary to specialize as a litigator? I like liti but I feel that its hard to be a top litigator unless you have a gift for it.

How about going into a specific industry niche in liti like IP, insolvency gen insurance or med neg? I feel that its easier to build reputation as a specialist ligitator serving a particular industry or type of client base, rather than the eat-what-u-kill kind of generalist litigator (Senior Counsel type).
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  #14237 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 02:18 PM
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everyone say b4 pay peanuts.... but if i wanna do dispute resolution, where to earn more and still get good training?
as has been mentioned in this forum, litigation is about the individual lawyer more than it is about the firm you're from. B4 aren't the only firms that pay decently. At one firm i was at disputes people got better bonuses. Maybe it's more easily recognised? I don't know.

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Thoughts on whether it is necessary to specialize as a litigator? I like liti but I feel that its hard to be a top litigator unless you have a gift for it.

How about going into a specific industry niche in liti like IP, insolvency gen insurance or med neg? I feel that its easier to build reputation as a specialist ligitator serving a particular industry or type of client base, rather than the eat-what-u-kill kind of generalist litigator (Senior Counsel type).
im still quite new at this, but just my 2c:

if you don't have first chair trial advocacy kind of skills it doesn't mean you can't make a good living out of disputes. but if you're at the early stages of your career you may want to consider if you still want to do disputes long term - what if you prefer corp?

my impression is that generalist litigators make good money because it's the truly contentious matters that pay you well - i.e. the kinds that end up in trial. specialist areas may not end up in trial because of their more commercial nature (but that's also why some people prefer specialising).
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  #14238 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 02:36 PM
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In my experience the junior associates start to shine around the 1.5 year mark, assuming they've trained with us under the level of our expectations and rigour. That's when they're more or less familiar with environment and truly start to appreciate the bigger picture of the matter and not just discrete parts of it.

With the new 1 year TC, this will be brought forward to ~ 0.5 PQE. Why wouldn't the firm keep them around to make full use of their enhanced capabilities? There's still couple more good years when they're still considered relatively low PQE and not too expensive.
1.5 year mark - you can bring in sales? You can do business development? You can handle management meetings? The type of work you do from 0-2pqe is inconsequential that’s why the UK TC is 2 years. And after that for the first 3-5 years the firm uses its goodwill to help you more than the other way around.
Unless you have a book of clients, you are no different from a NQ even if you’re a SA, because if the NQ worked really hard everyday, he or she can master everything. Practice is not rocket science.
Why so many ppl plateau off at SA and stay stuck for a very long time is because the skills are simply irrelevant for the next tier.
With AI things will get even much more faster and more efficient. Which means you need lesser ppl rather than more ppl to perform a task.


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  #14239 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 02:46 PM
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1.5 year mark - you can bring in sales? You can do business development? You can handle management meetings? The type of work you do from 0-2pqe is inconsequential that’s why the UK TC is 2 years. And after that for the first 3-5 years the firm uses its goodwill to help you more than the other way around.
Unless you have a book of clients, you are no different from a NQ even if you’re a SA, because if the NQ worked really hard everyday, he or she can master everything. Practice is not rocket science.
Why so many ppl plateau off at SA and stay stuck for a very long time is because the skills are simply irrelevant for the next tier.
With AI things will get even much more faster and more efficient. Which means you need lesser ppl rather than more ppl to perform a task.
Picking up calls from clients to turn the draft submissions/ documents and making amendments to it is no different from a call centre. What happened to call centres that were so popular once upon a time? Replaced by automation, self help kiosks and AI.
Please broaden your horizons. Everyone would like to think they are important but the reality hurts.
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  #14240 (permalink)  
Old 15-10-2021, 03:12 PM
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I am still unsure whether Man U or Liverpool has better training...
Oi Liverpool FC the best
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