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  #14211 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 07:21 PM
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Not sure whether you noticed
But with a 1 year tc, the firms paying you 7.5k starting is not really an uplift if you’re gonna get your $1-2k for 1 year lols

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  #14212 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 07:45 PM
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not the op, but this is quite misleading

1. we're comparing bmwl with mc firms which pay sg qualified lawyers on the international scale in sg. you don't have to migrate to the uk and take the lpc before you are paid on the international scale. the problem with bmwl is that they claim to be an international firm, but they don't pay international rates in sg unlike the mc firms. so the proper timeline for comparison is the first 2 years in sg, which is how long it takes to complete the training programs for mc firms in sg

2. the bmwl trainee salary is lower than the mc trainee salary. comparing cc's salary (since they publish it on their website) and your claim of 8.5k for baker 1PQE:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 = 126k (average of 5.25k per month)
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 = at least 162k (average of at least 6.75k per month)

even if you consider the initial 3 years, the difference only widens:

baker's pay for initial 3 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 + 9.5k x 12 = 240k (average of 6.3k per month)
cc's pay for initial 3 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 + 13k x 12 = at least 318k (average of at least 8.8k per month)
BM white knights in shambles

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  #14213 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 09:11 PM
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Not sure whether you noticed
But with a 1 year tc, the firms paying you 7.5k starting is not really an uplift if you’re gonna get your $1-2k for 1 year lols
That is true LOL but for those who are NQ (or NQ adjacent) that's just great news. Also, once the 1 year TC starts, law firms are going to feel a lawyer-squeeze for NQ-2PQE assocs, which can only mean higher pay lol.

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  #14214 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 09:13 PM
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not the op, but this is quite misleading

1. we're comparing bmwl with mc firms which pay sg qualified lawyers on the international scale in sg. you don't have to migrate to the uk and take the lpc before you are paid on the international scale. the problem with bmwl is that they claim to be an international firm, but they don't pay international rates in sg unlike the mc firms. so the proper timeline for comparison is the first 2 years in sg, which is how long it takes to complete the training programs for mc firms in sg

2. the bmwl trainee salary is lower than the mc trainee salary. comparing cc's salary (since they publish it on their website) and your claim of 8.5k for baker 1PQE:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 = 126k (average of 5.25k per month)
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 = at least 162k (average of at least 6.75k per month)

even if you consider the initial 3 years, the difference only widens:

baker's pay for initial 3 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 + 9.5k x 12 = 240k (average of 6.3k per month)
cc's pay for initial 3 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 + 13k x 12 = at least 318k (average of at least 8.8k per month)
Will take your points 1 by 1.

1. "we're comparing bmwl with mc firms which pay sg qualified lawyers on the international scale in sg. you don't have to migrate to the uk and take the lpc before you are paid on the international scale." - Clearly you have no idea how the MCs hire SG qualified lawyers in Singapore. They subtract 2 PQE from your SG PQE when you are hired. In other words, there is no way that you, as a SG qualified lawyer, are getting into a MC firm before you hit 2 PQE, and after that you will be paid on the UK NQ scale. Going back to my earlier point, this means the proper comparison is between a 2 - 3 PQE on the SG scale and a NQ on the UK scale. The point you are making is basically the same as saying: a 3 PQE in a small firm pays more than a NQ in a B4, so the small firm pays more. ???

2. This is your calculation:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 = 126k (average of 5.25k per month)
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 = at least 162k (average of at least 6.75k per month)

The first part of the baker calculation is 2k x 12.

First of all, baker's training pay is 2.5k.

Second, why x 12? The SG training period is 6 months. Is this because you are including Part B? Then the question becomes why aren't you including part B in the CC calculation as well and instead starting from when the TC begins? Clearly you like to reason backwards from the conclusion that you want.

We will be fair and calculate both firms for 2 years starting from when training begins then:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2.5k x 6 months (for training) + 8.5k x 12 (1st year) + 9.5k x 6 (last 6 months) + an average bonus of 2 months = 184.5k
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 (no bonus as a trainee) = at least 162k

You can see that the baker lawyer usually makes significantly more up to this point.

From that point on, the CC lawyer makes more (I have never disputed that).

Get better at twisting facts please?
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  #14215 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 09:21 PM
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Because the guy who used the number 8.5k wants to defend his argument that BM pays close to MC/SC rates, and he can't say that with 8K, especially when he already admitted that even 8.5k (and 2PQE rates for BM) is closer to big4 than true MC/SC.
Love the essay replies here. And where did he admit the 8.5 being close to big4 part? Didnt see that.
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  #14216 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 09:57 PM
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BM white knights to the rescue LOL
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  #14217 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 10:03 PM
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anyone know how much are these two alleged sinking ships paying? heard withers have increased progressively, but l&l remains dated
Nvr increase with the recent hikes?
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  #14218 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Will take your points 1 by 1.

1. "we're comparing bmwl with mc firms which pay sg qualified lawyers on the international scale in sg. you don't have to migrate to the uk and take the lpc before you are paid on the international scale." - Clearly you have no idea how the MCs hire SG qualified lawyers in Singapore. They subtract 2 PQE from your SG PQE when you are hired. In other words, there is no way that you, as a SG qualified lawyer, are getting into a MC firm before you hit 2 PQE, and after that you will be paid on the UK NQ scale. Going back to my earlier point, this means the proper comparison is between a 2 - 3 PQE on the SG scale and a NQ on the UK scale. The point you are making is basically the same as saying: a 3 PQE in a small firm pays more than a NQ in a B4, so the small firm pays more. ???

2. This is your calculation:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2k x 12 + 8.5k x 12 = 126k (average of 5.25k per month)
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 = at least 162k (average of at least 6.75k per month)

The first part of the baker calculation is 2k x 12.

First of all, baker's training pay is 2.5k.

Second, why x 12? The SG training period is 6 months. Is this because you are including Part B? Then the question becomes why aren't you including part B in the CC calculation as well and instead starting from when the TC begins? Clearly you like to reason backwards from the conclusion that you want.

We will be fair and calculate both firms for 2 years starting from when training begins then:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2.5k x 6 months (for training) + 8.5k x 12 (1st year) + 9.5k x 6 (last 6 months) + an average bonus of 2 months = 184.5k
cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 + at least 7.5k x 12 (no bonus as a trainee) = at least 162k

You can see that the baker lawyer usually makes significantly more up to this point.

From that point on, the CC lawyer makes more (I have never disputed that).

Get better at twisting facts please?

1. "In other words, there is no way that you, as a SG qualified lawyer, are getting into a MC firm before you hit 2 PQE, and after that you will be paid on the UK NQ scale."

false, cc offers sg qualification training contracts to local students. their trainees join the firm's singapore office straight from law school and they are paid on the international scale from day one. source: s://careers.cliffordchance.com/apac/locations/singapore.html

2.

(a) "The SG training period is 6 months." false, the batch of students who just signed their tcs this month will have to train for a year. this change was announced in 2018. keep up with industry please

(b) cc trainees get a bonus in their second year of training too. if you want to count bonus, the correct calculation is:

baker's pay for initial 2 years: 2.5k x 12 (training period period to get qualified) + 8.5k x 14 (including 2 months bonus) = 149k (average of 6.2k per month)

cc's pay for initial 2 years: 6k x 12 (training period period to get qualified) + at least 7.5k x 14 (including 2 months bonus)= at least 177k (average of at least 7.3k per month)

"You can see that the [cc] lawyer usually makes significantly more up to this point."


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  #14219 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 10:12 PM
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Anybody else quit their job recently? Feels good serving notice
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  #14220 (permalink)  
Old 14-10-2021, 10:17 PM
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Nvr increase with the recent hikes?
dunno why people talking so much about hikes - the only recent one has been A&G.
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