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Need Advice on IB & Consulting Urgently !

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Old 22-05-2015, 01:25 PM
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Default Need Advice on IB & Consulting Urgently !

Hi Guys , I'm a current Masters student in Business Management . Previously I was in the electronics engineering fled where I worked for around 7 years. At the moment I'm trying to get into IB (Operations ) or Management consulting (not with MBB's but more like accenture types). My GPA is around 3.5 and I'm currently studying at a reputable university (Ranked within the top 50 B schools in the world ). Some of my peers have already landed jobs in IB's and Consulting firms but they have better grades than me. So I'm trying to figure out why am I not getting any calls from these firms ?? some conclusions were,

1). I have no relevant Internships
2). Too old to join as a associate / Analyst ( I'm 30 by the way)
3). Existing work experience doesn't add value and are unrelated

My questions .....

1). Is it possible for me to get an internship and will it be worthwhile (considering my age) ??
2). Is my age really a problem for the applications ??
3). What are my alternatives ?? what other carrer option do you think i have ?? Any ideas are welcome

Thank you so much !

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Old 22-05-2015, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rampa001 View Post
Hi Guys , I'm a current Masters student in Business Management . Previously I was in the electronics engineering fled where I worked for around 7 years. At the moment I'm trying to get into IB (Operations ) or Management consulting (not with MBB's but more like accenture types). My GPA is around 3.5 and I'm currently studying at a reputable university (Ranked within the top 50 B schools in the world ). Some of my peers have already landed jobs in IB's and Consulting firms but they have better grades than me. So I'm trying to figure out why am I not getting any calls from these firms ?? some conclusions were,

1). I have no relevant Internships
2). Too old to join as a associate / Analyst ( I'm 30 by the way)
3). Existing work experience doesn't add value and are unrelated

My questions .....

1). Is it possible for me to get an internship and will it be worthwhile (considering my age) ??
2). Is my age really a problem for the applications ??
3). What are my alternatives ?? what other carrer option do you think i have ?? Any ideas are welcome

Thank you so much !
My 2 cents:
- Your background matters. How transferable are the skills that you've obtained in the electronics engineering field to IB? Likely to be not very relevant. Try a more targeted approach - IB groups which specialize in industrials (rarely heard of them though)?
- Yes, your age matters. Post-MBA IB, you would be looking for Associate (instead of analyst) roles, where you would be groomed towards obtaining clients (instead of spending ~100hrs/week formatting PPTs and Excel sheets).
- Yes, try your best to get an internship. It's possible even at your age; many have done so. It is important for your future IB FT application.
- If IB/MC fails, try for Post-MBA Leadership Programmes at MNCs. They usually have these programmes for MBA graduates. These are pretty good. Although not at the IB/MC level, salary and hours are good. Search around; there are many of these around. Not easy to get them too, but just apply to as many as possible.

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Old 22-05-2015, 01:39 PM
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I'm the above poster. Btw, what do you mean by you're trying to get into IB(Operations)? Not sure what you meant, but I highly don't recommend doing operations in Investment Banks.

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Old 22-05-2015, 03:50 PM
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Thanks a lot for your advise....will check out for Leadership programmes
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Old 22-05-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm the above poster. Btw, what do you mean by you're trying to get into IB(Operations)? Not sure what you meant, but I highly don't recommend doing operations in Investment Banks.
Yes I meant doing operations in a Investment Bank.....actually looking at my peers and based on what I've heard It's really hard to get into other departments without a strong Finance background (My Masters is a general management degree with one module on corporate finance) and I don't have a CFA (not even lvl 1). I also don't have previous work ex in programming / software modelling either . So what i thought was to get into the Bank first via Operations where I kind of have a chance (I thought !) then work on a CFA or something later ?? any ideas are most welcome....Thx
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Old 22-05-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rampa001 View Post
Yes I meant doing operations in a Investment Bank.....actually looking at my peers and based on what I've heard It's really hard to get into other departments without a strong Finance background (My Masters is a general management degree with one module on corporate finance) and I don't have a CFA (not even lvl 1). I also don't have previous work ex in programming / software modelling either . So what i thought was to get into the Bank first via Operations where I kind of have a chance (I thought !) then work on a CFA or something later ?? any ideas are most welcome....Thx
Please don't fall into the prestige trap. I have nothing against Operations (I appreciate their work, really), but it would be a waste to work in Operations even if its in an Investment Bank. Unless you're willing to embark on a career where you do mostly stuffs that don't really require any specific technical knowledge, I suggest that you avoid Operations/Technology (AKA Back Office).

To give you a context about operations:
Primary job scope:
(1) Clearing Trades: To make sure that the records one bank has kept of the sale of a financial security match those of the bank or organisation it sold the security to.
(2) Settling trades: Covers everything from preparing the documentation required for a sale, to making sure the bank has been paid for all the shares it has bought and sold.

What is so "Bad" about operations?
(1) Largely requires no technical expertise
(2) Easily outsourced
(3) Relatively lower pay
(4) Lack of career progression (Unless you can play politics really really well)
(5) Monotony

For your case, if you don't have much financial knowledge, your best bet within the banking industry would be:
(1) Risk: Operational Risk (you may try for Credit/Market Risk too, but will be harder)
(2) Compliance
(3) Retail banking: Sell credit card (not kidding; you can be really successful if you're good)

Those two roles are considered to be "middle office", and would be better than Operations. If you're thinking to get into a bank first, then network your way to the other departments: This is not impossible, but will be very difficult.

Also, the banking industry doesn't really pay that much higher at all. If they pay higher, it's usually front office roles (i.e. Investment Banking or Sales & Trading). This slightly "higher pay" is often compensated by the volatile nature of the job (i.e. they are more willing to hire & fire). Goldman, CIMB, Macquarie, etc, all scaled down their Singapore Investment Banking teams recently. Don't choose a job just because of prestige; I don't find banking prestigious at all. But you may wish to join banks for other reasons that I don't know.

If I were you I would really explore careers in other companies. Just search around. I'm sure many would at least interview you, since you have a reputable MBA.
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Old 22-05-2015, 04:31 PM
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Another thing is that you should also seek help from your school's career services. You pay that much for an MBA for the post-MBA career; since you've paid for the career services, you should really utilize them fully.
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Old 23-05-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rampa001 View Post
Hi Guys , I'm a current Masters student in Business Management . Previously I was in the electronics engineering fled where I worked for around 7 years. At the moment I'm trying to get into IB (Operations ) or Management consulting (not with MBB's but more like accenture types). My GPA is around 3.5 and I'm currently studying at a reputable university (Ranked within the top 50 B schools in the world ). Some of my peers have already landed jobs in IB's and Consulting firms but they have better grades than me. So I'm trying to figure out why am I not getting any calls from these firms ?? some conclusions were,

1). I have no relevant Internships
2). Too old to join as a associate / Analyst ( I'm 30 by the way)
3). Existing work experience doesn't add value and are unrelated

My questions .....

1). Is it possible for me to get an internship and will it be worthwhile (considering my age) ??
2). Is my age really a problem for the applications ??
3). What are my alternatives ?? what other carrer option do you think i have ?? Any ideas are welcome

Thank you so much !
I suggest you broaden your scope especially your personal situation isn't very attractive in terms of qualification, experience & age.

Don't just choose MC and IB just because it is the first thing that comes into your mind & look prestigious, the world is much bigger than that.

You stick with this kind of straight narrow mentality, chances you will end up in some useless ops/bo role overworked underpaid in either an investment bank or some mid tier consutlancy co.

You study MBA is to make good money ROI and improve your lifestyle & net worth, not to get a fake nice looking Goldman Sachs VP name card while being overworked & underpaid.

Get your priorities right.
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Old 23-05-2015, 01:56 PM
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how much were you currently drawing previously in your engineering job? And, how much you expect to be drawing if u were to get a BO/MO job with an IB?
If you were to land a job in those areas, what are your expectations going forward, say, the next 5-7years? And you wld be around early 40s by then.

Gotta manage your expectations realistically, cus things isnt that rosy as you think it is.
But i would say, in general, someone with 5years of BO exp (i.e trade settlements, etc) would likely to be paid more than someone with equivalent exp in the engineering field. Of course, this can be debated and doesn't apply to every single eng jobs out there, but rather just an avg across the board in SG. However, don't expect to be able to walk into any BMW / Merc showroom and point to any newest import models you fancy without batting an eyelid. Better paid doesnt mean very well paid.

Like previous posters said above, dont be disillusioned by big names,etc (well... still they do matter to some extent..), if you have proper academic papers and solid working exp previously, why not explore other opportunities? BO in banking is the function that could easily be outsource any chennai, poland, china, philp,etc. Even being in the MO doesnt mean you are safe, you will still face the risk of being layoff, axed due to restructuring, etc. Talking about industry volatility, banking is probably 1 of the top few ones alongside with the manufacturing line.

If you have family commitments, consider your options carefully. I've seen many people diving into the banking field and in the end have to leave because they couldnt make it. It is a cut throat environment, even in the BO/MO you'll def have psycho colleagues out to make life miserable for others and such scenarios are more prevalent in banking.

Bro, if you manage to get a job in banking next time, make sure to play the 'game' smartly and shrewdly
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Old 24-05-2015, 12:26 AM
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how much were you currently drawing previously in your engineering job? And, how much you expect to be drawing if u were to get a BO/MO job with an IB?
If you were to land a job in those areas, what are your expectations going forward, say, the next 5-7years? And you wld be around early 40s by then.

Gotta manage your expectations realistically, cus things isnt that rosy as you think it is.
But i would say, in general, someone with 5years of BO exp (i.e trade settlements, etc) would likely to be paid more than someone with equivalent exp in the engineering field. Of course, this can be debated and doesn't apply to every single eng jobs out there, but rather just an avg across the board in SG. However, don't expect to be able to walk into any BMW / Merc showroom and point to any newest import models you fancy without batting an eyelid. Better paid doesnt mean very well paid.

Like previous posters said above, dont be disillusioned by big names,etc (well... still they do matter to some extent..), if you have proper academic papers and solid working exp previously, why not explore other opportunities? BO in banking is the function that could easily be outsource any chennai, poland, china, philp,etc. Even being in the MO doesnt mean you are safe, you will still face the risk of being layoff, axed due to restructuring, etc. Talking about industry volatility, banking is probably 1 of the top few ones alongside with the manufacturing line.

If you have family commitments, consider your options carefully. I've seen many people diving into the banking field and in the end have to leave because they couldnt make it. It is a cut throat environment, even in the BO/MO you'll def have psycho colleagues out to make life miserable for others and such scenarios are more prevalent in banking.

Bro, if you manage to get a job in banking next time, make sure to play the 'game' smartly and shrewdly
if you're not getting calls, there must be something wrong with your resume. no sane hiring manager would want a 7 year EE guy to clear trades, hoping he/she would not find it boring and leave. you need to start anew, or enlist the help of recruiters and reformat your credentials appropriately.
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