Banks' Pay and Bonuses

Yeah, confirmed is SIM type.

The talk big yaya papaya, don't know anything about the world. So typically SIM hahahahhaha.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, too many unregistered posters here. Can I clarify that you are the same poster who provided the IB FO names earlier?

If we are talking about Exxon and Shell one thing you have to understand is that these 2 supermajors put more emphasis on career progression rather than starting salary or bonus. Also just like banking, the treatment between hot jobs like trading & upstream (think of them as FO equivalent) is very different from the other jobs which are like your MO & BO.

Their starting salaries are not fantastic high and their bonus while still much higher than others isn't exactly top of the top either. What they excel in is the no. of opportunities given to top talent and the ability of top talents to move up in speed that rivals the banking industry. There is no way a normal non AO civil servant can come remotely close in terms of career progression.

For eg. take Shell (since they have a more structured program), you said there was a NUS valedictorian who joined them. Chances are he was recruited as a graduate trainee at <4k which sounds correct. Assuming he wasn't going in as one of those "FO" jobs if you add in all the other stuff like allowance, aws & bonus maybe he gets 70k+, higher than your typical freshie but not fantastic.

But what is interesting is what happens after that. Essentially if the guy doesn't screw up, he can expect to roughly double his pay within 3 years of the program. So we are talking 140k for 3 year's work, not bad. But the fun is just starting, as a grad he would automatically be given a high CEP status a.k.a the equivalent of real scholars in civil service.

What this means is that his chances of getting promotion & expatriation is very high. As you probably know, getting an expatriation automatically means you live like some king with all expenses paid for your whole family plus a whole lot of beanies & allowances which has the effect of more than doubling your pay.

Besides expatriation, generally from what I observe these high CEP people usually get promoted once every 2-3 years. Each promotion is an increase in salary, allowance, bonus, stocks. Assuming your valedictorian friend can continue this trajectory, even without the need for expatriation or switch to the "FO", he should be able to get at least 300k+ within 10 years. This just for a MO/BO job which is probably on par I guess with many good banks?

Exxon is harder to predict because they do not have a very structured program and progression is much more individualistic. I have seen people who get thrown out after a few years because of stress or poor performance, I have also seen people who move up faster than Shell breaking the $500k barrier in their late 30s (again normal jobs, not talking about trading or drillers)

Exxon operates a leadership analysis system as well, but it is much more brutal in the sense that it's a yes or no thing. If it's a no, work hard and no slacking - be prepared to end your career as a local manager (think they call it L28 or 29 which is not bad, roughly the equivalent of MX9 in civil service).

If yes then again things go crazy, lots of promotion opportunities, globe trotting and huge investments in your personal development. Between the 2, I would say Exxon is stronger on the upside and Shell is stronger on average.

As for "FO" jobs in this industry, their packages fall broadly into 2 kinds. Those on the trading related side generally have basics that are 30-40% higher than the rest and uncapped bonus. Bonus quantum vary depending on individual, but I would say based on my exp, about on par with the trading desks from BB.

As for the drilling side, they also generally have higher pay & bonus than the rest, but bonus wise is lower than the trading side. But what they have instead is expatriation benefits all the time as the nature of their work means they are unlikely to be based in Singapore even if they were recruited here.

I have an acquaintance from big oil who has been mostly working abroad ever since he left school, he recently decided to retire at before 50 because with all expenses paid by the co. throughout his life. he was smart enough to plow all his salary & bonus to buying many properties in Singapore.

Hi, I'm the original poster that you quoted. Thanks for your reply to my comment. Btw, I'm a different poster from the one who provided the IB FO names earlier.

But I must say, wow. I didn't expect the overall package to be that high. And 300k+ after 10 years, not to mention breaking the 500k barrier, is almost unimaginable to me for a salaried individual in Singapore. Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, I'm the original poster that you quoted. Thanks for your reply to my comment. Btw, I'm a different poster from the one who provided the IB FO names earlier.

But I must say, wow. I didn't expect the overall package to be that high. And 300k+ after 10 years, not to mention breaking the 500k barrier, is almost unimaginable to me for a salaried individual in Singapore. Thanks for the insight.

Yea but to put into context we are talking about high potentials who work in the 2 biggest oil company in the world. General mid career hires are of course more normal and not that great. Still I see a lot of normal PMEs there can easily exceed 100 or even 200k, but anything above 300k starts to get pretty rare.

Société Générale traineeships...

Trainee, Coverage & Investment Banking
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/64192997[/

Trainee - Global Markets, Fixed Income and FX Sales
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/65782745[/

Trainee - Commodity Derivatives Engineering
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/65781800[/

Pricing Trainee
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/71114416[/

Fixed Income Trading Trainee
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/71114550[/

Cross Assets Solutions Trainee
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/71112930[/

Transaction Banking Trainee
[s://.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/71112936[/

I used to work in one of the oil majors mentioned in the trading function.

Yes, basic is higher and bonuses are good, but times have changed. There were some org restructuring and the result has been a pressure to be more equitable to all employees, not just to trading. Consequently, some have left out of frustration.

It is true that expatriation yields a lot of benefits. At times, it can be close to doubling your pay if you have a property to rent out back home.

As well, the high packages mentioned in the oil cos are possibly true, but only applies to hi-po employees who have reached a v senior lvl. A local senior fella getting sgd$200K+ is already considered good. Hitting 500K will be likely a v senior regional/global role. We are talking about basic only of course. On the average, if you are mediocre, you can still live comfortably, but do not expect such high packages.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I used to work in one of the oil majors mentioned in the trading function.

Yes, basic is higher and bonuses are good, but times have changed. There were some org restructuring and the result has been a pressure to be more equitable to all employees, not just to trading. Consequently, some have left out of frustration.

It is true that expatriation yields a lot of benefits. At times, it can be close to doubling your pay if you have a property to rent out back home.

As well, the high packages mentioned in the oil cos are possibly true, but only applies to hi-po employees who have reached a v senior lvl. A local senior fella getting sgd$200K+ is already considered good. Hitting 500K will be likely a v senior regional/global role. We are talking about basic only of course. On the average, if you are mediocre, you can still live comfortably, but do not expect such high packages.

You from BP? I understand the whole place is in trouble and they are restructuring big time in an effort to stay afloat.

As far as I know none of the other major energy trading houses have changed their salary structure to more equal to the rest of the staff. Don't seem to make sense if you ask me.

I work in an oil major, so I hope I can help provide some insights since I see some healthy discussions about O&G here.

Not everyone working in O&G industry will be drawing obscenely high salary. The bulk of the employees will retire with a last drawn salary of ~$150-200k/year as a mid level manager (based on the company I work in and not referring to the technician roles). I think that's more than sufficient to live a good life in Singapore. There will be a small handful (around 5% of the population) who are deemed to have higher capacity and will end up with more senior roles (department managers for huge manufacturing sites; regional managers etc). These people end their career drawing ~$3-400k/year. There is this other special group of people (<1%) who are over achievers and they are promoted to senior roles early in their career and eventually end up as senior executive leaders (general managers of manufacturing sites, product lines, VPs, directors and what nots etc). I do not know their remuneration packages but it is definitely some heavenly figures.

So no, O&G starting salaries are not as fantastic as some of the banking jobs that are described in this thread but the potential to rival some of the best banking jobs is there if you are a high flyer. Even if you aren't a high flyer, you would still live a comfortable life in Singapore. I do not think there is such a big difference in life style between someone earning $200k/year and $300k/year. At the end of the day, we should just be happy doing what we are doing (be it banking or other industries).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I work in an oil major, so I hope I can help provide some insights since I see some healthy discussions about O&G here.

Not everyone working in O&G industry will be drawing obscenely high salary. The bulk of the employees will retire with a last drawn salary of ~$150-200k/year as a mid level manager (based on the company I work in and not referring to the technician roles). I think that's more than sufficient to live a good life in Singapore. There will be a small handful (around 5% of the population) who are deemed to have higher capacity and will end up with more senior roles (department managers for huge manufacturing sites; regional managers etc). These people end their career drawing ~$3-400k/year. There is this other special group of people (<1%) who are over achievers and they are promoted to senior roles early in their career and eventually end up as senior executive leaders (general managers of manufacturing sites, product lines, VPs, directors and what nots etc). I do not know their remuneration packages but it is definitely some heavenly figures.

So no, O&G starting salaries are not as fantastic as some of the banking jobs that are described in this thread but the potential to rival some of the best banking jobs is there if you are a high flyer. Even if you aren't a high flyer, you would still live a comfortable life in Singapore. I do not think there is such a big difference in life style between someone earning $200k/year and $300k/year. At the end of the day, we should just be happy doing what we are doing (be it banking or other industries).

O&G the highest paid jobs are traders & offshore exploration engineers. You basically went through everything except these 2 jobs. That's like going through the entire banking jobs except for the investment FO & trading side. You have to compare like for like, not normal jobs in O&G vs top jobs in banking.

Secondly I think the fact that you even refer to the bulk of normal employees being able to retire at 200k salary a year so nonchalantly maciam like it's an everyday occurrence just goes to show how out of whack some of the people in O&G industry are.

I am very interested to know except for O&G and banking which other industry out there can claim that most people will retire at 150-200k. In some low margin industries like manufacturing, hospitality, retail etc. most people don't even hit 100k when they retire.

I work in a local blue chip co and looking at those colleagues about to retire at >50 years old, hard to imagine most of them are now drawing ~$150-200k/year as a mid level manager. Even the minority that reach Director level also not all will draw 200k. O&G must be really good, if I can just get in I really wont mind being a mediocre staff if they can let me retire with 200k salary.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I work in a local blue chip co and looking at those colleagues about to retire at >50 years old, hard to imagine most of them are now drawing ~$150-200k/year as a mid level manager. Even the minority that reach Director level also not all will draw 200k. O&G must be really good, if I can just get in I really wont mind being a mediocre staff if they can let me retire with 200k salary.

i dunno abt big oil, but use to be from FELS and i can guarantee you over there confirm it is rare for pp to retire at so high. maybe the very good performers yar, but bulk of the rest... hahaha