Banks' Pay and Bonuses

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Anyway, part of the reason why Banking and O&G companies pay high salaries is because they are volatile/cyclical industries, and are more prone to laying off people. This phenomenon is obvious in banking - just look at HSBC, Goldman, RBC, MacQ, etc. This is happening in O&G too, ever since the prices of oil fell significantly over the past year. Furthermore, Big oil's profit is suffering, which would also lead to lower bonuses. The era of high-oil prices, as according to many oil analysts and Big Oil CEOs, seem to have ended. This is a very significant issue since the base salaries in the O&G industry is quite similar to the rest of the industries, with the high bonuses contributing to the high overall salary package in the O&G industry.

Actually broad painting oil & gas industry is not doable. O&G has a far more diversified profile & culture between companies compared to banks which tend to be more homogenous, i.e. times are bad all cut headcount together, times are good all pay big bonus together. Basic salary also more or less at same level.

For e.g. if you look at the big oil, all very different profile:

1) Exxon - Forever firing people at the low end of the performance curve regardless of company or industry situation. Generally high basic & big fixed bonus. Good thing is if you are strong performer, they don't give 2 hoots about what low oil price, increment & bonus continue business as usual. Bad thing is if you can't meet the curve, you can lose your job even if oil price is at $200.

2) Shell - Tends to pay high basic salary & bonus regardless of industry situation. Paid out massive bonus this year even as prices are falling. Because of this very low turnover as nobody want to leave, but also makes it very hard for mid career to join as little opening.

3) Chevron - Tends to react to industry conditions more compared to the other 2 bigger rivals, i.e. will cut & increase bonus & pay if needed. But still very mild compared to most banks. Likes to boast of having best benefit among big oil and never cutting them no matter what crisis.

4) Total - Very European culture, much smaller basic pay & bonus compared to the rest, but stability is almost like civil service. Job security maybe the highest in the industry, extremely low turnover.

5) Conoco - Flexible culture like most banks. Volatile in terms of pay & bonus and also job security, but in good years sometimes their package can be even better than bigger rivals.

6) BP - In a very bad shape now, more like in survival mode. Massive chopping headcount, cut pay & benefits, cost cutting everywhere in order to survive the downturn. Turnover very high like revolving door.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually broad painting oil & gas industry is not doable. O&G has a far more diversified profile & culture between companies compared to banks which tend to be more homogenous, i.e. times are bad all cut headcount together, times are good all pay big bonus together. Basic salary also more or less at same level.

For e.g. if you look at the big oil, all very different profile:

1) Exxon - Forever firing people at the low end of the performance curve regardless of company or industry situation. Generally high basic & big fixed bonus. Good thing is if you are strong performer, they don't give 2 hoots about what low oil price, increment & bonus continue business as usual. Bad thing is if you can't meet the curve, you can lose your job even if oil price is at $200.

2) Shell - Tends to pay high basic salary & bonus regardless of industry situation. Paid out massive bonus this year even as prices are falling. Because of this very low turnover as nobody want to leave, but also makes it very hard for mid career to join as little opening.

3) Chevron - Tends to react to industry conditions more compared to the other 2 bigger rivals, i.e. will cut & increase bonus & pay if needed. But still very mild compared to most banks. Likes to boast of having best benefit among big oil and never cutting them no matter what crisis.

4) Total - Very European culture, much smaller basic pay & bonus compared to the rest, but stability is almost like civil service. Job security maybe the highest in the industry, extremely low turnover.

5) Conoco - Flexible culture like most banks. Volatile in terms of pay & bonus and also job security, but in good years sometimes their package can be even better than bigger rivals.

6) BP - In a very bad shape now, more like in survival mode. Massive chopping headcount, cut pay & benefits, cost cutting everywhere in order to survive the downturn. Turnover very high like revolving door.

Talking to yourself again?????

Yesterday try to act like mr know it all in the banking industry today change to oil & gas expert. Cannot make it inside IB then work harder, don't try to smoke like you know everything. Also if given offer in IB & O&G at the same time, any grad with half a brain will join IB. Dun try & talk down just because you cmi

Why would I need to do that?

I think you're paranoid. I am not an expert in oil and gas so that's definitely NOT from me. Especially since it's not my industry. But I know enough not to list shell as a company which pays "high basic salary". After all, their graduate scheme only pays graduates 3.4k.

I guess you must be one of the loserish, insecure type who is super envious of others doing well or knowing more. What a clown.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Also if given offer in IB & O&G at the same time, any grad with half a brain will join IB. Dun try & talk down just because you cmi

Why is that the case?

And see the funny thing is, I wasn't even talking down to anyone. I have already stated quite clearly that some people don't apply to banks. For some reason or another, it's not their cup of tea. So it's self selection at play. But you can't seem to wrestle around this simple logic and see it as IB vs O&G (or some other industry). How dull are you?

But anyway, from your remarks, I know you're most certainly not working in FO banking. Because you don't know how taxing it is, and how it isn't a preferred lifestyle choice for many. Why do you assume everyone wants to join? Maybe some can't take it? Maybe some don't want to? I am speaking on a neutral front here as someone who has gone through the grind.

Unlike you, I don't simply parrot off what other people say. You might wish to sell yourself for $$$ but others might not, does that answer your question?

And for the record, I don't have to work in BB FO to be somebody. Please lah, there are elite boutiques like Lazard and Blackstone which are much more favorable. Don't speak as though you're an insider-- you sound so daft hahahah

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually broad painting oil & gas industry is not doable. O&G has a far more diversified profile & culture between companies compared to banks which tend to be more homogenous, i.e. times are bad all cut headcount together, times are good all pay big bonus together. Basic salary also more or less at same level.

For e.g. if you look at the big oil, all very different profile:

1) Exxon - Forever firing people at the low end of the performance curve regardless of company or industry situation. Generally high basic & big fixed bonus. Good thing is if you are strong performer, they don't give 2 hoots about what low oil price, increment & bonus continue business as usual. Bad thing is if you can't meet the curve, you can lose your job even if oil price is at $200.

2) Shell - Tends to pay high basic salary & bonus regardless of industry situation. Paid out massive bonus this year even as prices are falling. Because of this very low turnover as nobody want to leave, but also makes it very hard for mid career to join as little opening.

3) Chevron - Tends to react to industry conditions more compared to the other 2 bigger rivals, i.e. will cut & increase bonus & pay if needed. But still very mild compared to most banks. Likes to boast of having best benefit among big oil and never cutting them no matter what crisis.

4) Total - Very European culture, much smaller basic pay & bonus compared to the rest, but stability is almost like civil service. Job security maybe the highest in the industry, extremely low turnover.

5) Conoco - Flexible culture like most banks. Volatile in terms of pay & bonus and also job security, but in good years sometimes their package can be even better than bigger rivals.

6) BP - In a very bad shape now, more like in survival mode. Massive chopping headcount, cut pay & benefits, cost cutting everywhere in order to survive the downturn. Turnover very high like revolving door.

Hey, regardless of whether they are 100% accurate, I believe that they are somewhat true. Thanks for your insight.

I was just curious about how high, really, are the salaries in O&G. Let's take the top 2 Majors for reference.

Exxon: I believe that the overall package is 12mths + 3mths (fixed), with no AWS. Starting is ~$3.8k/mth basic; increment for the first 3 years is between 4-8%. The average guy would probably plateau at 10k-15k/mth.

Shell: I believe that the overall package is 12mths + Bonus (highly variable, usually between 4 months to 18 months). Starting is ~$3.4k/mth basic (no NS), or ~$3.6k/mth basic (with NS); increment for the first 3 years is really high, like almost 20% per year. The average guy would probably plateau at 11k-15k/mth.

Could someone confirm if I've got the above figures right?

If they're right, it seems like civil service pays pretty good in comparison. The bonus in civil service could easily match up, or be even better, than Exxon (although not as high as in Shell). The base is high too. Starting is ~$4k/mth. With someone that calibre, his/her pay would probably plateau at 12k-15k/mth. Con someone affirm/rebut this? I've got a feeling that I'm missing an equation somewhere..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey, regardless of whether they are 100% accurate, I believe that they are somewhat true. Thanks for your insight.

I was just curious about how high, really, are the salaries in O&G. Let's take the top 2 Majors for reference.

Exxon: I believe that the overall package is 12mths + 3mths (fixed), with no AWS. Starting is ~$3.8k/mth basic; increment for the first 3 years is between 4-8%. The average guy would probably plateau at 10k-15k/mth.

Shell: I believe that the overall package is 12mths + Bonus (highly variable, usually between 4 months to 18 months). Starting is ~$3.4k/mth basic (no NS), or ~$3.6k/mth basic (with NS); increment for the first 3 years is really high, like almost 20% per year. The average guy would probably plateau at 11k-15k/mth.

Could someone confirm if I've got the above figures right?

If they're right, it seems like civil service pays pretty good in comparison. The bonus in civil service could easily match up, or be even better, than Exxon (although not as high as in Shell). The base is high too. Starting is ~$4k/mth. With someone that calibre, his/her pay would probably plateau at 12k-15k/mth. Con someone affirm/rebut this? I've got a feeling that I'm missing an equation somewhere..

Hi, too many unregistered posters here. Can I clarify that you are the same poster who provided the IB FO names earlier?

If we are talking about Exxon and Shell one thing you have to understand is that these 2 supermajors put more emphasis on career progression rather than starting salary or bonus. Also just like banking, the treatment between hot jobs like trading & upstream (think of them as FO equivalent) is very different from the other jobs which are like your MO & BO.

Their starting salaries are not fantastic high and their bonus while still much higher than others isn't exactly top of the top either. What they excel in is the no. of opportunities given to top talent and the ability of top talents to move up in speed that rivals the banking industry. There is no way a normal non AO civil servant can come remotely close in terms of career progression.

For eg. take Shell (since they have a more structured program), you said there was a NUS valedictorian who joined them. Chances are he was recruited as a graduate trainee at <4k which sounds correct. Assuming he wasn't going in as one of those "FO" jobs if you add in all the other stuff like allowance, aws & bonus maybe he gets 70k+, higher than your typical freshie but not fantastic.

But what is interesting is what happens after that. Essentially if the guy doesn't screw up, he can expect to roughly double his pay within 3 years of the program. So we are talking 140k for 3 year's work, not bad. But the fun is just starting, as a grad he would automatically be given a high CEP status a.k.a the equivalent of real scholars in civil service.

What this means is that his chances of getting promotion & expatriation is very high. As you probably know, getting an expatriation automatically means you live like some king with all expenses paid for your whole family plus a whole lot of beanies & allowances which has the effect of more than doubling your pay.

Besides expatriation, generally from what I observe these high CEP people usually get promoted once every 2-3 years. Each promotion is an increase in salary, allowance, bonus, stocks. Assuming your valedictorian friend can continue this trajectory, even without the need for expatriation or switch to the "FO", he should be able to get at least 300k+ within 10 years. This just for a MO/BO job which is probably on par I guess with many good banks?

Exxon is harder to predict because they do not have a very structured program and progression is much more individualistic. I have seen people who get thrown out after a few years because of stress or poor performance, I have also seen people who move up faster than Shell breaking the $500k barrier in their late 30s (again normal jobs, not talking about trading or drillers)

Exxon operates a leadership analysis system as well, but it is much more brutal in the sense that it's a yes or no thing. If it's a no, work hard and no slacking - be prepared to end your career as a local manager (think they call it L28 or 29 which is not bad, roughly the equivalent of MX9 in civil service).

If yes then again things go crazy, lots of promotion opportunities, globe trotting and huge investments in your personal development. Between the 2, I would say Exxon is stronger on the upside and Shell is stronger on average.

As for "FO" jobs in this industry, their packages fall broadly into 2 kinds. Those on the trading related side generally have basics that are 30-40% higher than the rest and uncapped bonus. Bonus quantum vary depending on individual, but I would say based on my exp, about on par with the trading desks from BB.

As for the drilling side, they also generally have higher pay & bonus than the rest, but bonus wise is lower than the trading side. But what they have instead is expatriation benefits all the time as the nature of their work means they are unlikely to be based in Singapore even if they were recruited here.

I have an acquaintance from big oil who has been mostly working abroad ever since he left school, he recently decided to retire at before 50 because with all expenses paid by the co. throughout his life. he was smart enough to plow all his salary & bonus to buying many properties in Singapore.

dun get emo still dun admit lah, if really dun care still keep coming here write story & pretend to talk to yourself. cannot get in fo come here bs like some banking expert. google a few ib names then act like you really know them but provide no details. standard reply is to tell others to contact them directly. haha very convenient.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Why is that the case?

And see the funny thing is, I wasn't even talking down to anyone. I have already stated quite clearly that some people don't apply to banks. For some reason or another, it's not their cup of tea. So it's self selection at play. But you can't seem to wrestle around this simple logic and see it as IB vs O&G (or some other industry). How dull are you?

But anyway, from your remarks, I know you're most certainly not working in FO banking. Because you don't know how taxing it is, and how it isn't a preferred lifestyle choice for many. Why do you assume everyone wants to join? Maybe some can't take it? Maybe some don't want to? I am speaking on a neutral front here as someone who has gone through the grind.

Unlike you, I don't simply parrot off what other people say. You might wish to sell yourself for $$$ but others might not, does that answer your question?

And for the record, I don't have to work in BB FO to be somebody. Please lah, there are elite boutiques like Lazard and Blackstone which are much more favorable. Don't speak as though you're an insider-- you sound so daft hahahah

Originally Posted by Unregistered

dun get emo still dun admit lah, if really dun care still keep coming here write story & pretend to talk to yourself. cannot get in fo come here bs like some banking expert. google a few ib names then act like you really know them but provide no details. standard reply is to tell others to contact them directly. haha very convenient.

You must be from SIM. Enough said.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, too many unregistered posters here. Can I clarify that you are the same poster who provided the IB FO names earlier?

I have an acquaintance from big oil who has been mostly working abroad ever since he left school, he recently decided to retire at before 50 because with all expenses paid by the co. throughout his life. he was smart enough to plow all his salary & bonus to buying many properties in Singapore.

Different guy here.

I don't understand why you refer to everything in dollars and cents.

What if I simply like to work in oil and gas and not banking?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You must be from SIM. Enough said.

Lol, that is devilishly funny! It's like being from SIM is the ultimate insult.