Accountancy vs Chemical engineering.
 

hi guys, the university application is around the corner and i need help deciding between these two courses. Im applying for the course that has the best prospect. If i were to apply for NTU accountancy, i would most probably be working for a big 4 auditing firm with a starting pay of 2.7k, but from what i heard, the salary progression is pretty fast and i would most probably be able to hit 5k after 4 years to 5 years. But if i choose to go to NUS chemical engineering instead, i would be aiming for big O&G companies like shell and exxon. I do know Shell and Exxon have a higher starting salary of 3.4k-3.6k with at least 3 months bonus, but i am unsure of their salary progression 3 or 4 years down the road. Can someone please give me any advice?

it would be naive to think you can get into o&g. you need to make sure you can get the gpa. if you don't, you're farked. there is only so much o&g companies in sg. on the other hand, with an accounting degree you're much employable anywhere.

but i've read online, people with third class honours in the forums getting into O&G like Exxon... im not sure if this is true or not..

Not true. Accountancy would have more stability, employment would not be hard to find. While trying to work in O&G is very different. Your employment is swayed by market rates, all of a sudden, your company can come out and say that they are cutting headcount by 20% because oil prices are down like they are now. My cousin works in a small local subsidiary of Schlumberger and their headcount was just cut by that much. They announced it on Monday and by wednesday, most of them were out the door. I'd say accountancy would be much more stable.

Accountants are a dime a dozen. And many companies are moving their finance hubs or COEs out of Singapore. Go with chemical engineering. You won't regret it in the longer term.

First of all, the chances of getting into Shell/Exxon is very very slim unless you are a top scorer in uni and can outshine a lot of other ivy leauers, dean's list, FCH etc. during AC. They seldom hire fresh executives w/o going through the super hard MAP.

Secondly your starting pay and bonus market intel on Shell/Exxon is not accurate. More importantly, Shell/Exxon MAP progress so fast there is no way a typical big4 auditor can even match half the pay of a Shell/Exxon MAP graduate after 5 years. A typical big4 auditor draws 5k on a 14 month package after 5 years while a Shell/Exxon MAP draws 9-10k on a 20 month annual package for the same time. My good friend is Exxon MAP so I know how fast their pay can increase (~20% every 6 months during the MAP duration)

I suggest if you are just average student, it is better to make decision based on big4 accounting/auditing career vs fresh executive in other smaller O&G players. That way you have a more realistic apple to apple comparison.

Hahaha where got ppl compare Exxon or Shell with Big 4 audit one?

If you can make it to any of the oil big boys, your other options to consider will be MBB management consultancies or global bulge bracket banks. Even grads who get offered those local bank graduate program will drop a Big 4 offer in a heartbeat.

Exxon doesn't have an AC. Neither do they have a MAP. Get your facts right.

I think they have, but its not call MAP (call something else cant remember). But iirc the program is recruiting globally, not Singapore specific, so not sure how many position in SG open each year.

take accountancy, then use your spare time to take a math minor, if you can find such program. Then get some certificates such as CFA during school years. Then aim banking.

forget about chemical engineering. the only engineering still has some future in Singapore is computer engineering.

i have to admit, im rather ignorant but why computer engineering?? does this have something to do with advances in "cloud computing" or "big data" ?

sorry if im just spouting random phrases..

Isn't Singapore a big player in oil and gas apart from being a financial hub? you know.. like oil refining.

does this mean that if i go into chemical engineering and dont score FCH, im basically going to have a max of 5k salary like the various singaporean engineers im reading online..?

Yeah, why suddenly Chemical Engineering career prospective seems to be so dark? Plus I believe it is harder to get higher GPA to be FCH in Chemical Engineering because the course is highly sought after by students. Last year, I still hear NUS professor warning Common Engineering students that they may have difficulty to enter Chemical Engineering because there is high demand from students.

Difficulty of the course does not equate to a good job prospect! Business and Accountancy are arguably much easier than engineering, yet they have better job prospects. Pure Physics is even tougher than engineering and biz but have no lucrative prospects either.

I'm from an O&G major and based on my own experience, my package (all in) was about $150k after 5 years. Not sure about accountancy. And I'm pretty sure a chemical engineering degree is much harder to ace than an accountancy one.

Wow, impressive. I'm assuming you are in one of the global oil MNCs in singapore like exxon and shell? May i know what is the current outlook for chemical engineering grads in 4-5 years down the road who are hoping to enter oil and gas in singapore?

It is quite difficult to predict for the o&g industry, as with all other industries. With low crude oil prices recently, everyone is scaling back on major expenditures and some are stopping recruitment. What will crude oil prices be in 4-5 years time? nobody knows. What I do know is that o&g industry is likely going to remain a profitable business in the long run unless there's major breakthrough in science that allows substitution of fossil fuels for our energy consumption.

i see... and lastly, is it true that trying to get into Exxon or Shell as a process engineer is as hard as getting into investment banking department of jp morgan and goldman saachs? Which means i most probably i have to have at least a FCH in chem eng and a ton of internships?

not really true. It also depends on the recruitment requirement of the company when you graduate. When I graduated, Exxon took in about 20+ chemical engineering grads (mostly first class and second upper honours, I think there were some second lowers too). Most of them had done a 6 months assessed internship. Shell on the other hand also provides assessed internship but the number is relatively smaller. There are other alternatives to get in though, like going for a graduate assessment day which will put you through a series of interviews and activities in a packed day to see if you have the attributes the company is looking for. Again, they don't just employ FCH.

It is hard to score well in Chemical engineering, and if you do not have a fch or atleast a second upper, the chances of you getting into the more lucrative career is dim.

biz and accountancy is much easier to score and you always hear the success stories of their graduates getting 5-digit starting pay in investment banking. But they failed to mention that these individuals are really the extreme minority. For the remaining majority, their career prospect is no better than an average chemical engineer. In fact, even for the top jobs, such as investment banks, consultancy etc, they do not hire biz/acc major exclusively. If you are good and have relevant internship experience, you will stand equal chance at these top jobs compared to a biz/acc major... just that other faculties are less likely to announce to the world that their best graduate is earning high income in a completely unrelated field.

Exxon used to take in normal fresh degree engineers in the past, but I doubt they do it now. Anyway Exxon isnt really high paying in the chemical industry by SG standards. SRC (JV of Chevron & Petrochina) and Shell Eastern are much higher and harder to get in.

Also people need to distinuish b/w Chemical and O&G industry. Most of the jobs put up by all these big co like Shell, Exxon, Chevron etc pay more comparable to Chemical industry then O&G industry in Singapore. Only trading ops, some of the global project management jobs and marketing/procurement side is more like O&G environment.

Chemical is a lower profit and lower paid subset of O&G. An O&G engineer (where the big money is) would be something like Wells Engineer, Reservoir Engineer, Petroleum Physcist, Geologist, Subterranean Specialist, Seismic Risk Analyst etc. You will not get to be an O&G engineer by stuyding Chemical Engineering in NUS.

Chemical engineers are much more well paid than they typical PWC auditor and most other industry, but to compare to investment bankers and hedge fund managers is exaggerating. Only a selected number of jobs in SG that really belong to the oil & gas side (not petrochemicals) are comparable to your finance / banking top shots.

nah, unless its a local SME, no sizable company is gonna ask some 7k accountant for advice on how to chart the company's future long term direction. this is just big cannon delusion. in fact many big mncs are offshoring accountants to shared service centers in cheaper locations such as India & Philippines.

LOL. Ey, i was a ex-chemical engineer who worked in exxon. You really anyhow pomp ah. Really mis feeding information.

1. Chances of getting in being slim is not true. Depends on the year and demand. Exxon turnover quite high. About 60-70% of each cohort will leave by 5th year. My year, the refinery took in 10, chemical side took in another 10-15 ( over a few months). When i graduated, only NUS had chem engine, so 25 out of graduating class of 200 is a 12% chance. Not slim. Exxon is to chemical engineer as Google is to software engineer. Got 12% of software engineering student got into google?

FCH? Another myth. Only 1 chap was a FCH. The rest are second upper, one or 2 second lower and even got one is 3rd class. Our common thing we all intern there and the bosses like us. And the FCH chap one of the first to leave for investment house btw.

MAP? sorry ah, exxon or shell no MAP culture. Exxon like to hire fresh graduates because it believes in molding employee to its culture. There are very few cases of experience mid hire in exxon. Shell on the other hand like experienced hire ( mostly from exxon though..lol).

If u ear marked for management position they put u on overseas program to US for a few years to rotate with the big bosess ( the big boss like to see how u work before handing u the reins to singaporea business). SG Exxon is actually one of the most profitable sites in Exxon. Got one particular year ~10 years ago, SG site ( refinery and chemical) accounted for about 10% of it's net downstream profits.

2. your good fren is exxon MAP? Department? Exxon dont have MAP. They only take in engineers, WHO might be groomed to take up management position. Really anyhow cannon fairy. 10-15% increment every 6 mths is true maybe about 10 years ago, and that is for first 2 years. Now what they do is to raise basic salary to 3.8-4K ish and cut down on this increment. End up financial package over 3-4 years is the same, but it means starting salary is more competitive la.

accountancy or chemical engineering? I suggest accountancy lo.

Cos in chem eng, u are a small fish in a big pool. If u can be in the top few who go into shell/esso dont mean u huat liao. Not all engineers rise to be managers who take home 20K a month at 40 years of age. If u become farmer, looking at retiring with 12-15K pm max. If u start in esso, there are also not a lot of places for u to jump to, namely shell, some investment/trading houses only because other engineering companies will be meh ( in terms of $$, benefits). Then what if didnt get into O&G...farmer at 8-10K when u retire..

Accountancy on the other hand, once u struggle pass the first 3 years, u become a " accredited liao". Can jump here jump there. Studying also not that siong, some more only 3 years. if u manage a FCH in accountancy, go enter CAD, work 5 years come out become consultant for the MMCs teaching them how to avoid taxes etc...huat big time.

me ah. i was going to be a farmer in exxon one, until opportunity came along...then took a leap of faith lo.

If Exxon is such a good company, why is there a high turnover rate?

what is CAD?

How much is the salary if one become consultant for the MNCs teaching how to avoid taxes etc anyway?

ppl here really know how to tcss, chemical engineer one of the most poorly paid engineering jobs. most end up paid only 5k after many years and get stuck go nowhere.

accountants can become FC, CFO, banking etc sky is the limit. accounting can easily hit 250k salary within 10 years.

accounting is high pay high flyer iron rice bowl, chemical engine prepare to get chop anytime. By mid 40s most accountants will be paid at leat double of the engineer (if he still has a job)