Be a commodities trader

i dun doubt there are people who did well in commodities, but it really depends on the product and company.

i came from base metals previously and the industry is like sh|t now. look at how much copper has fallen from its peak since pre financial crisis. look at china's slow down and china is the biggest buyer of commodities. look at how deutsche bank has laid off its whole commodities unit. look at how JP morgan wants to sell its oil unit to mecuria.

just offering a different view. go into the industry with ur eyes open.

[aplover]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

i dun doubt there are people who did well in commodities, but it really depends on the product and company.

i came from base metals previously and the industry is like sh|t now. look at how much copper has fallen from its peak since pre financial crisis. look at china's slow down and china is the biggest buyer of commodities. look at how deutsche bank has laid off its whole commodities unit. look at how JP morgan wants to sell its oil unit to mecuria.

just offering a different view. go into the industry with ur eyes open.

I think it is **** if one only gained his skills in the paper trading side of commodities. The physical side may not pay as crazily as the paper but it is alot more stable and the business is there for thr long run. Paper trading desks can just close as easily as they are setup. You pointed out correctly how banks are closing their desks now. Thry opened with much fanfare and a boom in 2007 but now all forced to sell or close their desks to focus on only core bankinh businesses.

Also metals will always be the first loser in a global economy slow down even for physical commodities as vols can shrink significantly. Pple can build less stuff and world economies still get by. Not for agri and oil

How do you guys feel about a career in finance in a commodities firm?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Looks like the commodities line is quite quiet or lacking interest. Maybe i post some salary related information and people might get more interested to join. My history has always been in physical commodities with some paper experience.

I started 7years ago as operations assistant in a metals company. Salary 3k. Promoted to junior trader just before i left after 1 year. Slight increment to 3.2k.

Jumped to agriculture sector as junior trader and annual increment exercise salary went up to 3.85k. This is at yr3.

For Yr4, i left the commodities industry for personal reasons and didn't do much work actually. Did my own thing and see more things around the world.

Yr4, i came back into the industry after realising i still love the industry. I got this opportunity through a recommendation. 5.6k.

Yr5, internal increment as did well 7k. Then nearly got poached to go into my previous sector. Discussed nicely with my boss my situation. 10k.

Yr6, still 10k. Left the company after having differing opinions on work with new bosses

Yr7, started in new company 12k.

Above just base salary only.

I realised once i hit about 5-6k. I was contented already. I didn't spend necessarily more when i earned more after that and didn't really need to work for the money. Just worked for enjoying it and love the challenge. Drive a simple car for family use. Can afford some luxuries once in a while. Give more to charity and to church. So pretty happy.

I have been deeply blessed to rise up like that although yes i know there are others better than me but more important is i'm contented with what i have and plan to give more as i earn more as really don't need it. There are still alot of poor and struggling people in Singapore so i donate to charities who target these groups mostly.

Cheers

Thanks for the honest sharing above and glad to hear that you're able to be content with what you have. I started as a trainee in a large agri commodities firm with <3k salary for about 1 year plus, before recently being confirmed as a junior trader at around 3.5k+. While the revised salary finally brings the pay to fresh grad levels, they are paying white fresh grad expats more than 2x locals salary for similar trainee/junior trader roles in SG. Can't help but feel a sense of injustice on the different treatment. I have been working to prove myself and get recognised, but its like running a race with a handicap. Was wondering if you had a similar experience and how did you deal with it? General advice very much appreciated as well!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for the honest sharing above and glad to hear that you're able to be content with what you have. I started as a trainee in a large agri commodities firm with <3k salary for about 1 year plus, before recently being confirmed as a junior trader at around 3.5k+. While the revised salary finally brings the pay to fresh grad levels, they are paying white fresh grad expats more than 2x locals salary for similar trainee/junior trader roles in SG. Can't help but feel a sense of injustice on the different treatment. I have been working to prove myself and get recognised, but its like running a race with a handicap. Was wondering if you had a similar experience and how did you deal with it? General advice very much appreciated as well!

sorry friend, but the ang mo expat pay has always been like this all along in singapore. white counterparts are paid 2x more to counter the effects of foreign exchange. not to forget they still have to pay tax when they are abroad. worship the white.

[aplover]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for the honest sharing above and glad to hear that you're able to be content with what you have. I started as a trainee in a large agri commodities firm with <3k salary for about 1 year plus, before recently being confirmed as a junior trader at around 3.5k+. While the revised salary finally brings the pay to fresh grad levels, they are paying white fresh grad expats more than 2x locals salary for similar trainee/junior trader roles in SG. Can't help but feel a sense of injustice on the different treatment. I have been working to prove myself and get recognised, but its like running a race with a handicap. Was wondering if you had a similar experience and how did you deal with it? General advice very much appreciated as well!

This is quite common still. And you must be still new in this industry? The pay diff is quite obvious in the first couple of years in this industry. It shd be less later on. Many companies are like this, some companies it is more prevalent, some less. You just hv to find one which really values and pays you for your contribution and your skin color.

For where you presently are, you shd see whether your good seniors still stay. If they all leave then maybe u shd too.

Originally Posted by aplover

This is quite common still. And you must be still new in this industry? The pay diff is quite obvious in the first couple of years in this industry. It shd be less later on. Many companies are like this, some companies it is more prevalent, some less. You just hv to find one which really values and pays you for your contribution and your skin color.

For where you presently are, you shd see whether your good seniors still stay. If they all leave then maybe u shd too.

Thanks aplover for your helpful comments - I'm indeed still new and trying to establish myself within the firm and with external people, thankfully with some success. I'm also on the lookout for a good boss/company who values me and whom i can contribute to wholeheartedly - but that's so rare to find isn't it?

My Singaporean seniors are staying because the firm does provide learning opportunities which are hard to replicate outside, although they continue to be underpaid vs expats despite their contributions.

On the bright side, I think the management is starting to see the value of hiring Singaporeans (partly spurred by recent change in govt policy, partly because we are higher on the value/cost curve vs expat grads and can stay in the region for the long term) but its a painfully slow transition process. Each batch of my seniors have communicated in various ways that the company should pay us fairly (4 years ago trainees are paid less than 2k, without a pay raise for confirmation), and our lot has improved over the years, by proving with consistent results that we're worth it.

I hope that this post will encourage my fellow Singaporeans in the commodities industry to press on in adding value wherever you are, to support our fellow brothers and sisters and to collectively communicate for a fair package based on what we bring to the table.

[villan]

Any tips on securing a trainee trader role? I don't see many openings around.

I have been working in Banking industry for more that 8 years now, wondering if I am able to enter commodity trading...

[aplover]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks aplover for your helpful comments - I'm indeed still new and trying to establish myself within the firm and with external people, thankfully with some success. I'm also on the lookout for a good boss/company who values me and whom i can contribute to wholeheartedly - but that's so rare to find isn't it?

My Singaporean seniors are staying because the firm does provide learning opportunities which are hard to replicate outside, although they continue to be underpaid vs expats despite their contributions.

On the bright side, I think the management is starting to see the value of hiring Singaporeans (partly spurred by recent change in govt policy, partly because we are higher on the value/cost curve vs expat grads and can stay in the region for the long term) but its a painfully slow transition process. Each batch of my seniors have communicated in various ways that the company should pay us fairly (4 years ago trainees are paid less than 2k, without a pay raise for confirmation), and our lot has improved over the years, by proving with consistent results that we're worth it.

I hope that this post will encourage my fellow Singaporeans in the commodities industry to press on in adding value wherever you are, to support our fellow brothers and sisters and to collectively communicate for a fair package based on what we bring to the table.

I don't think your mgmt will really change. I left my previous company becoz I know they will not change on this pt. today I'm glad I moved and my value is a lot higher than some of my peers who stayed. Agree it is a combination of factors but fair compensation is very crucial which will determine your next few jumps.

Originally Posted by villan

Any tips on securing a trainee trader role? I don't see many openings around.

There are. Quite a lot on jobsdb.com n others

Originally Posted by Unregistere

I have been working in Banking industry for more that 8 years now, wondering if I am able to enter commodity trading...

If you are willing to invest time to learn the ropes as an analyst or operations person first starting at avg 3-4k salary. Why not? But then you might not make the cut as a trader ultimately. Will you be ok with that?