First Job: Is it Normal to Struggle?

[FreshGradStruggles]

Wow. I am incredibly humbled by the number of responses for such an embarrassing situation. Thank you all very much for taking the time to write something.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You are fortunate to have such patient people around you.

From my personal experience, MNCs typically have a more structured hand-holding training for the first 4-6 weeks, thereafter you are expected to go it on your own. GLCs are less forgiving and a lot more is expected from a grad... training is minimal (1-2 weeks at most) and you are expected to learn on your own, be inquisitive, find your wan about. sink or swim is the mentality.

Honestly, not knowing rudimentary things like who to cc after 3 months is not good. you should figure it out in the first month.

Keep a notebook handy to jot things down. However don't hover around your colleagues or stick too closely cos you may irritate the hell out of them after being around for so long and still having to ask all kinds of questions.

If all else fails then just hang in there, not everyone can make it to management and this natural selection process is vital to other people's progression.

Cheers.

Yes, I cannot express in words how grateful I am to have such patient colleagues, supervisor and to a certain extent, bosses. That is why I feel that I need to do something to also become a better member of the team.

I do use a notebook to write down key things I have learned in the day, but I take your point that it should include little observations/realizations such as who to CC for what matters and etc.

Originally Posted by QXP

I am a line manager and have experience managing several large teams before and have seen a couple of cases like you before.

As I see it, most likely you are having the issue is because you are typical exam smart (which explains your NUS degree) but little experience or competency beyond that. You are now venturing outside your comfort zone and basically your mind is still in a type of brain freeze trying to adapt and comprehend what the heck is going on.

In the working world, you have to play politics, manage customers, manage internal colleagues and all this manifest in the way you write email (eg who to CC who to BCC), how should you write your report, how to angle the thing to look bad to A and look good to B in order to promote you / your boss interest etc.

Some things you need to say it at the right place at the right time to the right people etc, otherwise nothing seems to get done. You are still figuring out how to do that. In terms of analytics and language skills, I assume you should have them since your studies should be good to get into NUS.

My advice for you is first thing calm down, listen more, observe more and talk and think less. You are in the jungle and you must spend the next few months knowing your surroundings first. Don't think of career progression, impressing people or even "doing the job well", all these are secondary. You must discern the actual landscape in the office first before you can figure out how the game is played.

The good thing is so far, your boss and colleagues are not nasty and remain professional. But a lot of times when you gain experience, you will realise things are not as simple as it looks on the surface. The smiling and ever helpful colleague could be the most dangerous one.

Make use of this good luck of a good office environment to spend a few months to observe what's going on - usually there is an undercurrent on how the game is played, don't do anything silly until you figure out who is powerful, who is not, who is really good, who is not, who is your ally or enemy, and how to work with all of them to get things done. Some will call this playing cynical politics, but in real life this is the way to survive, compete and climb the corporate ladder.

As above, thank you so much for taking the time to write this. The post is super helpful for someone like me.

You are quite right when you said that I am probably someone who is book smart but lacking in experience or competency. While I did do some internships when I was in NUS, I do not think I was pushed sufficiently out of my comfort zone. That could explain what I feel so uncomfortable and nervous now.

I understand and will take your advice on how I should undertake the role of an observer for the next month or so. I do need to calm down and listen/observe more. Too much thinking/worrying is definitely not helping at the moment.

Originally Posted by QXP

I'm not quite sure whether you were quoting me out of convinience or was the post directed at someone else because I can't see what you have said has got to do with FreshGradStruggles's (FGS) problem.

FGS is having difficulty figuring out email communication nuances, report writing and how to get things done in the office without relying on colleagues. You are presumably advocating him/her to follow your various unorthodox examples of completely staring in the blank and relax, shouting at others when it is unfair, "have a kind heart" and worse of all to walk cooly and steadily with the logic that somehow senior management will think that's confidence and chat you up.

I don't usually respond to this sort of juvenile nonsense, but seeing at how FGS is quite confused and lost in the workspace, I really need to step in and rebut this kind of misguidance which can cause career damage to the undiscerning.

I think his/her advice would be more relevant to perhaps someone more experienced in his/her role. It would not otherwise reflect too well for a fresh hire like me who cannot even discern who to CC/BCC for e-mails.

Nevertheless, I thank you both for sharing your experiences and thoughts with me.

[FreshGradStruggles]

This "Multi-Quote" function for this forum somehow does not follow the chronological order of responses. Apologies to the first two users who also took their time to respond -

Originally Posted by Unregistered

mind sharing what your industry/role is?

I am in FMCG, in a role that is somewhat of a cross between business strategy and marketing. Not quite sure how else to describe it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

i studied banking and finance and joined SCB when i graduated. Didn't have much problems setting in etc. I was a pretty fast learner and adapter. Nevertheless after that, I have joined other places where it was more difficult to fit in and cope etc.

My advise is to speak to your direct supervisor and get his frank advice or appraisal on how he finds your performance for the past 3 months, what you can do to improve etc. Example that report you did? Maybe read similar reports from other colleagues etc on the right way it should be written etc.

About who to CC etc, keep a notebook and just record for emails about X subject - cc who and who and who etc.

I will consider speaking to my direct supervisor about my performance thus far, including that terrible report. I am a little nervous about this, and think it may reveal my immense insecurities about my performance. With that said, I also understand how it would be far more effective to ask him what he thinks than to wonder about what he thinks.

Originally Posted by FreshGradStruggles

I am in FMCG, in a role that is somewhat of a cross between business strategy and marketing. Not quite sure how else to describe it.

i see.... seems like all fresh grads nowadays want to get into strategy roles. truth of the matter is that is not easy, especially for a freshie whose world view up to the point of joining the company is idealistic and text book based. there are exceptions to the case (think top tier MBA students) but i always think that you need some years of working in functional areas before getting that MBA and going into strategy.

it is a very envious position you got there.. so i sincerely hope that you get over this bump and work it out!

Originally Posted by QXP

I'm not quite sure whether you were quoting me out of convinience or was the post directed at someone else because I can't see what you have said has got to do with FreshGradStruggles's (FGS) problem.

FGS is having difficulty figuring out email communication nuances, report writing and how to get things done in the office without relying on colleagues. You are presumably advocating him/her to follow your various unorthodox examples of completely staring in the blank and relax, shouting at others when it is unfair, "have a kind heart" and worse of all to walk cooly and steadily with the logic that somehow senior management will think that's confidence and chat you up.

I don't usually respond to this sort of juvenile nonsense, but seeing at how FGS is quite confused and lost in the workspace, I really need to step in and rebut this kind of misguidance which can cause career damage to the undiscerning.

You can say whatever you want.
Maybe you are jealous. I have had enough jealousy shoved at me.
99% of people in the office are HIDEOUS, are AVOIDANCE with people who they have FARKED with in politics before. BECAUSE they are in different CAMPS.
Why am I the most relax person, I gel with everyone. coz i don't messing around with stupid politics.

So what if he is a fresh grad, he can still practise what I told him. HOWEVER, when you need help, you better ask properly with kindness and courtesy as the other person's time is precious.

Originally Posted by QXP

I am a line manager and have experience managing several large teams before and have seen a couple of cases like you before.

As I see it, most likely you are having the issue is because you are typical exam smart (which explains your NUS degree) but little experience or competency beyond that. You are now venturing outside your comfort zone and basically your mind is still in a type of brain freeze trying to adapt and comprehend what the heck is going on.

In the working world, you have to play politics, manage customers, manage internal colleagues and all this manifest in the way you write email (eg who to CC who to BCC), how should you write your report, how to angle the thing to look bad to A and look good to B in order to promote you / your boss interest etc.

Some things you need to say it at the right place at the right time to the right people etc, otherwise nothing seems to get done. You are still figuring out how to do that. In terms of analytics and language skills, I assume you should have them since your studies should be good to get into NUS.

My advice for you is first thing calm down, listen more, observe more and talk and think less. You are in the jungle and you must spend the next few months knowing your surroundings first. Don't think of career progression, impressing people or even "doing the job well", all these are secondary. You must discern the actual landscape in the office first before you can figure out how the game is played.

The good thing is so far, your boss and colleagues are not nasty and remain professional. But a lot of times when you gain experience, you will realise things are not as simple as it looks on the surface. The smiling and ever helpful colleague could be the most dangerous one.

Make use of this good luck of a good office environment to spend a few months to observe what's going on - usually there is an undercurrent on how the game is played, don't do anything silly until you figure out who is powerful, who is not, who is really good, who is not, who is your ally or enemy, and how to work with all of them to get things done. Some will call this playing cynical politics, but in real life this is the way to survive, compete and climb the corporate ladder.

Best honest advice you can get. As much as it sounds bad/negative.

TS, I've read somewhere that for a new guy, 95% of the time, should be listening. I guess you've got plenty of advice along these lines, so you have some idea.

You also need to work for a while to find out if the job and/or workplace fits you, i.e. if the fit is no good, that may also be the cause of your struggles, and not just due to inexperience. Don't take too long to find out, though. As a fresh grad, hang around for 2-3 years before you come to your conclusions.

My personal experience was such - worked for 8 yrs plus, over 2 employers, and progress was slow, overtaken by my peers... then on my 3rd employer, things started to pick up, and was advanced regularly, definitely faster, over the same period of time! Still the same old me (except older and maybe wiser), but different job scope and employer - made all the difference.

Fret not. I majored in finance, joined the industry a year plus ago. During my first 4 months, i lost my voice constantly, due to stress (according to 4 different doctors). Sleep early, do not think about work when you get home. Do whatever you enjoy doing during non-work hours. You'll pull through. You do not have to speak to anyone, just yourself. You will get use to it, your body will get use to it, your mind will too.

[Nik]

Originally Posted by QXP

The smiling and ever helpful colleague could be the most dangerous one.
....
usually there is an undercurrent on how the game is played

These 2 sentences couldn't be more true, and I'm speaking from experience.

To the poster who says he doesn't play any politics and is kind to everyone, how is that possible? Actually yes, it's possible, I've tried it before, but the result is you get trampled on by everyone.

I think in order to survive, one needs to at least be aware of the politics being played and don't be kind to everyone.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't play politics.
I remain kind to everyone.
In the working world, you need to learn how to make compromises even when things don't turn your way.
find ways to prove your worth to your company, not arguing over petty small project issues.
I feel completely at ease at work, I walk around like I own the bloody place.
I work hard when I want to.
I relax when I want to (not the fake take newspaper and pretend to read type), I completely stare in the blank and relax
I argue based on intelligence and work. not based on politics
I shout at you if you are unfair.
Always remember to have a kind heart, when you are kind, you automatically forget all the negativities from nasty people, and you still walk coolly and steadily in the office (no avoidance)
All these leads to confidence in the office.
Your directors will notice you are very comfortable and confident every day and they will chat you up.

Utter rubbish. TS please refrain from following.

Playing politics can be emotionally and mentally draining.

Sometimes i wonder is it that important to climb up the corporate ladder? Is it worth all the trouble and stress playing politics to move up or gain more power?

Won't the world be a nicer place if people can treat each other better rather than engage in a zero-sum game.

Well I guess I am too idealistic.. that world does not exist