That probably explains a lot. After all it has that "s" letter too :X

Personally I feel smu grads are more inclined in the arts of business managament and they are well rounded graduates that have more exposure and aptitude.

NTU is located too far away from the city and students kmowledge are restricted only to their textbook. They are also too quiet or inactive. They dont take initiative.

NUS students are too accademically inclined to be good at anything.

Just an employers worth of 2 cents

My workplace hires a mix of NUS/NTU/SMU grads. Ministry, but I won't disclose which. My dept mostly has grads from the social sciences/humanities side from all three universities. I guess from where I work, the pro-activeness and the "street-smarts" of SMU grads can't really be applied. Those skills are probably more applicable in the business sector. Surprisingly, its the NTU grads that really shine here. Surprising because NUS FASS is the supposed bastion of Social Sciences and NTU's HSS is only about 10 years old.

But as their (indirect) supervisor, I honestly prefer the NTU grads for their technical know-how. They pretty much know a lot in terms of content. Also, probably due to their FYP-requirement, many of them are quite skilled with stats, can't say the same about NUS grads that are without honours, nor can I say the same about SMU grads, math and statistics somehow just creep them out.

In terms of knowledge about current and recent political climatic changes, relevant to my dept, the NTU grads also come out ahead. I was pretty shocked that one of the SMU grads didn't even know that Burma = Myanmar and that when talking to most Burmese, referring to the country as Burma is more acceptable than referring it to Myanmar since Myanmar is the name that is used by the Junta. So it really didn't matter that this SMU grad had OCIP to that very same country unlike the NTU/NUS grad, he obviously took nothing back other than pictures with cute orphans.

NTU students are also more obedient and thorough. They make really good civil servants. Its not an insult, if you've ever worked in the civil service, or if you're a guy and dealt with paperwork in NS. You'll realise the number of protocols and forms and channels one has to follow in order to complete certain tasks i.e bureaucracy. NTU students can do them really well and at lightning speed after they get used to it. SMU/NUS grads tend to leave several parts undone and try to circumvent protocols. Sure, we ALL know its easier that way, but protocols and rules are there for a good reason. And although it may be a hassle, it is still very much a requirement.

That said, Im sure university students from each university has strengths and weaknesses. It just depends on how they play to their strengths when applying for jobs. Seems to me that NTU grads excel in places where work is more technical, NUS grads excel in academia, whereas SMU grads would do well in places where persuasion and creativity is key. Just my 2 cents.

Say what you will about NTU grads, but lots of non-biz grads actually end up with pretty high-paying jobs in the financial sector, especially the engineering grads. For some reason, we get invited to more career talks from banks than engineering companies. Heck, I even know a big 3 accountant who just graduated from NTU Chinese. He was my senior in NS. Studied ACCA while getting his NTU degree. Im starting to wonder what they actually do in the financial sector. I don't think your degree or which uni you come from actually matters much. As long as you're from the big 3 universities, that is.

I'm an SMU student myself, and I must say our teaching system doesn't really cultivate an in-dept view of the subject that we are studying. It's just seminars, discussion, genral knowledge questions and so on... None of the materials even prepare you for graduate studies in the future for courses like MSc Computational finance in MIT, as the amount of quantitative content is really lacking behind our counter-parts in NTU and NUS.

Sigh...

Probably to post on facebook as their display picture, showing the whole world how compassionate they are in taking time off their oh-so-busy schedules to save the poor third-world orphas. gosh i hate these kind of people

Dosen't cover in depth views? You're kidding me right? I am a soon to be smu student that have tried attending several of their lectures for a better pic before enrolment and i have several friends in smu. All of them feedbacked that their lessons are on average more than rigorous than ntu or NUS counterparts.

Before lessons start, they have ro go to various sources outside textbooks and search for case studies to voice out their findings in the class which is moderated and/or corrected by a professor which merely guides them along.

And one of them is in the quantitative finance/major track-one of the major that is hardest to get in/maintain for biz specialization in smu.

General knowledge are not taught in biz specific courses/modules.. they are just part and parcel of e modules we hace 2 take under general studies, and some of them even though not directly related w biz management can complement ur knowledge of e major u are taking.

Also, you mentioned MIT, I believe that is the Massechusetts Institute of technology which is a um... idk ? A school more geared towards engineering and technology? And it is one of the top unis in the world?

Ntu and Nus graduates have a slim chance of getting into that uni even with their qualifications..

And besises, the universities with the best business graduate programes in the world are mainly wharton, havard and stanford.

These should be the schools u should consider for postgraduate studies if you want to apply finance knowledge to a biz settings.

Besides in e first place, if u do not have a passion of biz management in general or have a fondness for its culture why choose smu in the first place?

You should have taken up a degree with a mathematical track in NUS instead which also gives you some background or headstart in finance..

Your questions leas me to ponder if u r really an smu student Lol

I am an NTU NBS student and i must say i definitely regret myself for not choosing smu business..

At NTU, u are located all away at some isolated island and all we do is mug mug mug and mug. Every thing feels so accademically challenging that you feel you are taking not business adminiatration, but just another uni course...

Smu students can go for many internships exchange and biz stuides mission whereas here in NTU, it is so limited....

With regards to ur post I dont think anyone would care if you kow the relation between myanmmar and burma..

In fact, what you described is similar to the stuck-up and arrogant culture in NTU where people think that they are better than others due to petty "jc or secondary school knowledge" they learnt..

But in reality no one really cares.. in my attachment or job posting all employers prefer smu grads to do projects come up w suggestion etc. What happens to ntu students? We are left behind to do mundane paperwork and clerical duties...

Worse still if there are too many documents we have to stay and work OT...

Also once in my internships, all students as interna had to come up with suggestions on how to improve working enviornment and improve processes.. sad to say ntu students presentation skills and application knowledge is not as well defined or well polished as compared to smu..

Yes. Ntu is good at technical knowledge. What technical knowledge? Paper work and clerk duties..

If i can turn back time.. i would have chosen smu biz.. they train their students to go all out.. and to venture beyond their comfort zone to achieve what they want in life

Ntu students are still stuck on the shore of bickering over useless things like "is Burma =Myanmar"

At least they take their time off to contribute to the needy and less fortunate.

The same can't be said about people who take their time off their oh-so-busy schedules to gossip and b*tch about others by stalking other people's facebook or twitter.
These haters need to get a real life.

Exactly. This ia why smu grads are placed at the upper management in the corporate private sector, NUS grads placed at the research centre and NTU grads are mainly used to help out with e everyday office workload and processess.

just taking a break from work and browsing through when i saw this whole post.

you have a very idealistic textbook understanding of business. unfortunately the real world does not work like what you read in your management texts, especially not so when you enter undeveloped markets.

this, no amount of schooling in NUS/NTU/SMU or SIM ,will ever teach you.

my advise to you,

Can't agree more with you. Which was why I felt worried when reading the replies. The working world is so different and kids these days don't realise that when Universities "prepare" you for the working world, in reality it means the courses simply provide a basis for being able to perform the job duties fresh out of school, i.e. equip you with the basic skills and knowledge to start somewhere. But in order to start somewhere and begin to challenge the norms, certain disciplines require firm foundations.

The truth is, even the ang mohs at my workplace - the so called 'talents' - are mostly weak in their foundations too. They are eloquent, yes, and know how to talk and talked their way up. But they realise their words fall flat when challenged with technicalities. They only moved here after they moved up in their original office. Might explain why europe economy has never really performed well and are attracted to Asia like bees to honey.

dont be a joke please. u attended a few lectures in smu and you already know smu syllabus is more rigorous? which seniors feedback to you that? during open house is it?

not a single friend of mine from smu dare to say their syllabus is more rigorous. they themselves know that they spent way too much time doing project and engaging in so called class participation. and reading widely from different sources means you are just reading more broadly, not more in depth. if u cant even differentiate the 2, u made the right choice in going to smu.

and stop talking about quantitative finance please. u obviously know nothing about it. a true quant requires atleast a master or phd. just go and ask around how many of ur smu 'qf' major make it to be a quant? how many of them are in postgrad study? how many are suffering in it because their foundation is a joke? n if u r talking about qf, then MIT is a much better choice compared to your world best business sch.

Idealistic textbook understanding?

Please read what ive said and compare it to any of these "so called textbooks" and match it. Or did you blindly assume that too?

I do not care if the real world likes or do not like what I do at the end of the day so long as i hit my objective.

If you read why I typed carefully u shouls b able to infer that where i come from innovation and creativity is much more valued than your so called text book answers

Wow that guy was being nice you god damn douche. Since I'm free ans have nth better to do I shall entertain you.

Everyone knows smu has a rigorous syllabus. Its written all over thr god damn newspapers and employers are talkin abt it everywhere even in my workplace.

You don't need to go open house or ask seniors from the uni already unless you're living in a god damn cave isolated from the rest of society like how ntu is. Get out of your turtle shell boy.

you yourself just proved the rigour smu students themselves have to go through and all those discussion and project without lectures included mind you.

As for reading from a range of sources it is up to an individual to read frm your self definition of "broad" or "in-depth"

I can read a book about marketing and services to get more info on how marketing is related to servicea and how interdependent these 2 roles are at times or..

I can read a book about marketing services, products and marketing management to gain an in-depth view and knowledge If i prefer if thats what you are saying.
It boils down to perspective and individual choice so don't start throwing ******** around here. [/QUOTE]


You have such a shallow mindset and dont even know that the 2 terms 'in depth' and "reading broadly" can be subjective and think its the job of professors to spoon feed every knowledge to you w/o any self effort put in?

You'll be lucky to be even accepted to SIM.


Than do you? If you are so 2 speak, why are u wastin ur time here ranting on this forum like a 40 year old scrub living in your mom's basement arguing about quantitative finance when u could be making real money?

Let me put it this way:

Does an smu grad with qf major cares if he makes it to quant? No.

Do peple care how many of them are in post grad study? No.

All that matters is they receive a high pay once they get out on the workforce and receive better pay than ntu and nus grads. The better pay must come for a reason dont u think?

The general employment survey 2014 would like to say hi. Your logic is now invalid.

In before some idiot comes in n say that GES is not an accurate measurement of future mid term career pay and all other sh*t related, and that ntu and nus is better ask yourself this:

-ntu and nus has fewer intake of biz students than smu so which population sample /SDis more reliable?

-If smu students do so badly over e years as some ppl say why thru our after all these years they still command higher pay out of e 3 unis despite all those who say "smu are pretty on the outside only". Shouldnt their pay decrease than after all these years?

-GES is conducted by the ministry of education thru all 3 unis and figures are not plucked right out of thin air

-Weather or not ur mid-term career is succesful depends on ur attitude and how much effort u wanna put in. Uni can only be your stepping stone to success in e early game , but u have to depend on urself when in e corporate world to actively improve and learn. And most importantly:

Ur pay increment at mid career lvl wont be decided from which shitty elite grand uni with 'x' ranking u come from anymore.

Best uni in asia? Sorry 2 burst your bubble NTU.

Wtf are you talking about? That poster was referring to qf in a BUSINESS ORIENTED setting. Learn to use your brains please.. it may be hard for you but please try.. seriously.

Dont embarass yourself go around telling people that MIT is a better choice over havard/wharton for a qf suited for a heavily biz-oriented career.

1/10 for effort.

The GES survey shows that SMU salary has roughly stagnated and full time employment percentages have decreased since 2009. The hardest hit faculty is IS.

Gosh.... is this how smu students write these days? After so many posts, no one is convinced mostly because no compelling arguments were presented, other than reiterating the same old story all over again. Try writing something more coherent and more might be convinced of how mighty smu is.

no such thing as indepth in smu or ntu or nus. all syllabus just aim the cover the required subjects to pass the exams only. because professors know, come out to work, most of the time is useless. only indepth studies is done at phd level. in depth means studying the subject for months or years, perform studies and writing an analysis. not for tok cock sing song discussion type.

qf - MIT only offers Master in Finance. Their MBA is more qf track. but graduates typically snapped up by finance companies. they almost can take on any jobs they want.

so back to the main topic - smu econ or ntu biz. if you want international prestige, look up qs rankings or ft rankings. if local, doesnt make a diff.

Why not SMU Quant Finance? I heard it is quite specialised and can garner a high $$$

I dont know about IS but between 2012(2013) and 2013(2014) the GES indicate that smu econs and biz are climbing up the salary ladder overtaking nus and ntu:

2012(2013 GES):

http://www.salary.sg/2013/graduate-e...ublished-2013/

2013(2014 GES): http://www.salary.sg/2014/graduate-e...ublished-2014/

Im not sure where you got your informatiom from but it is incorrect

Oh yes, and Im sure coming here crying and trying to bring down other people here without compelling arguments make your claim more valid.

What an arrogant little snob. What are you trying to prove? That you're better? Not even the least humble. I love the way how NTU babies troll the net these days.

Go back to NTU. Most of them there are arrogant just like you and the best part-isolated on an island so that they cant be toxic to the rest of the singaporean community.

Oh wow.... really? Another ntu is better than smu post again?

Usually forums like these are peaceful till some ntu alumni or freshmam start bragging about how good they are claiming they have better technical knowledge than the rest..

Well ur technical knowledge is only limited for engineering or doing basic work job scope like data entry..

Cant stand these arrogant graduates.. reason why I try not to recommend ntu grads.. too self absorbed and refuse 2 learn anything taught to them outside their school

Smu quant course is v hard i heard.. u have to maintain an average a grade of B+ or A for several modules in order tp indicate u major on finance in ur amu cert

To OP: definitely NTU Business if you have an offer. SMU is good too but think the NTU Biz degree will open more doors. Just my 2 cents. Gd luck!

You get snatched by empolyers even before u graduate, receive higher starting pay than other unis and learn valuable hands on, technical n presentation skills.

What more could a uni grad ask for? Smu is definitely the better choice

Couldn't have said it more myself. Better than going to a uni that is isolated all the way at the far end and where most employers don't bother to go fight to employ "top minds"

Might as well pursue a more holistic education with mba teaching padegogy that put u ahead of others

Just reading this on the way to work. Am an SMU grad myself.

I think that there is seriously too much toxic here. Competition between universities is good but killing each other tends to be bordering on "taking it too far". That toxic nature probably stemmed from a time way before everyone's university careers and it should seriously be kept in check.

Just my two cents.

To TS, you would have probably chosen by now. I think what's important is finding out what you want in life. Partake in CCAs, internships, relationships, etc. Once you have a better idea of what you want, work towards it. Read up, take courses or something. University is one of the best times of your life, so treasure it.

This is true. I'm not a business student, so i've no beef in this fight, but i have many many business friends studying or studied across all 3 local unis.

TBH all business schs in SG are VERY NEARLY THE SAME. the difference is the individual student. all this talk about NTU students being more 'technical' (for better or worse), SMU students being good at presentations and networking, are really all THEORETICAL. if you have good honours and are driven to apply for good internships as well as have good EQ or know how to wayang, you will get the prestigious grad positions, whether in finance or whatever - if thats what you're looking for in life. if you have sucky grades, you will struggle to get those prestigious jobs, no matter which school u come from.

i will give SMU one thing in their favour though - they have very good and aggressive career services. so if you are thinking of choosing between the schools, this is one legit consideration to keep in mind.
OTOH the sleek marketing and constant blowing trumpet about how SMU grads are 'street smart and outspoken', i'm not so much a fan of. smu kids seem to have this constant compulsion (i wouldn't go so far to say a chip on their shoulder) to trumpet the fact that they are trained to "speak up". Cmon lah, do u seriously think the biz grads from NTU and SMU are mute and inarticulate and incapable of speaking up when it would be to their advantage to do so? the good students from those schools land top corporate positions too. everyone is on equal footing.

just my observations :)

^ correction to above: *biz grads from NUS and NTU

Yeah, we nees more people to key in data and filing up forms.. can never get enough people to do that ;)

Its not that NTU and NUS buisness are not good at being vocal when it comes to their topics of self interest. Its just that smu ones does a better job

But really depends on what kind of education you want that will determine your choice!

To the OP: good luck in selecting your uni choice!

SMU Business - 1st choice
NTU Business - 2nd choice
NUS Business - 3rd choice

why? I would have thought NUS is a better choice than NTU.

1st choice - NUS (2015 world rank: 12th)
2nd choice - NTU (2015 world rank: 13th)
3rd choice - SMU (2015 world rank: Nil)

Don't be a joker, the NUS brand name easily trumps all other local unis.

The cuf off point is also way higher. SMU kids might not have the grades to enter NUS while NUS kids definitely can enter SMU.

Need to burst your ego. All three are treated equal by employers, no such thing as one is more branded than the other. Cut off refers to the popularity of the said university. If you are so proud of NUS by all means but to suggest that it is the most superior in the local tertiary landscape is blowing trumpet. I have a daughter in NUS year3 in a course more demanding in terms of entry grade than its business school yet I can only say that it is a good university as NTU is also just as good.

You must not have gone overseas to study/work for prolonged periods of time or have significant number of expat friends/colleagues and students who study at top schools.

If you think that a BBB entry point at SMU Business is equal to an AAA at NUS, then yeah, you are as gullible as you're myopic. I have friends at SMU business and they are so stupid that I wonder how they got into university in the first place. There is no substitute for intellectual capacity, and that is represented by your grades, end of story.

what do expats / foreigners think of the local schools?

The "National" i.e. flagship university is always better.

Take Seoul National University, University of Tokyo, Australian National University, the list goes on.